Trouble finding timbers / lumber

[Haldeman1773 (WavyGlass)]

These old frames I'm buying require a header and stiles with finished width x thickness around 3-3/4" x 3-3/4", and a sill with finished thickness x width = 3-1/2" x 6-1/2". I've checked out several options, but none have worked for me, so far. I want dried timbers, so I don't need to deal with the movement and painting problems associated with green lumber.

So far, the only local option I've found for the sill is to buy planks, and laminate them up with boat builder's epoxy (West System) to make a 3-1/2" finished thickness timber. I've been doing this with Spanish cedar and Sapele (both variants of mahogany), which resists rot and machines beautifully, but is not an inexpensive option.

I've tried two options for the stiles and header, and am not happy with either. Option 1 was grade 1 or better fir timbers, 4x6 S4S (3-1/2" x 5-1/2"), which are only available green locally. They machined nicely, and I was able to make exactly what I need, but they are a sappy mess! There's absolutely no way I can paint these things, and I worry about movement after installation, as they reach equilibrium moisture. Option 2 was 4x4 S4S (3-1/2" x 3-1/2") select structural fir timbers. At least these are kiln dried, but they're not the prettiest or straightest things, and all edges are radiused. I really need crisp edges to replicate these old window frames.

Thanks for any help! I'm almost desperate enough to start laminating up mahogany for all of the components, but this is an enormous amount of work, and there's always the possibility of delamination down the road.

[mattswabb]

I bought 200 bf of rough sawn white oak off Craigslist. I searched there and emailed anyone who was selling bulk lumber until I found what I was looking for. I also was having trouble finding what I needed and there aren't any mills that I know of near me. The guy I bought from gets his supply from a mill at a discount and marks it up a bit. I had to drive over an hour one way.

[Casey]

My personal experience with fir as an exterior wood is that once a sliver starts running (it is weak between growth rings) it will keep running. It is prone to checking. It seems to hold paint OK. It has moderate rot resistance, but nowhere close to spanish cedar or mahogany.
You might try to find someone locally with a woodmizer personal bandsaw mill, and get some white oak cut. White oak was the preferred jamb post stock in NOVA in the 1750-1800 era. Then they seemed to switch to red pine

[CS in Low Hud]

I'm not sure where in SE PA you are, but Amish lumber mills are good resources for timbers - especially oak.

Just a thought.

Chris

[Haldeman1773 (WavyGlass)]

The trouble with oak is the dry time. Up to 3 years just to season to 18%, if air drying. It can be kiln dried, but the cost is very high to kiln oak. That said, I did find a guy who's selling 4" kiln-dried oak at $8.90/BF. At that price, it would cost me roughly $270 per window for the material. Expensive, but not completely unacceptable. The WEIGHT of hoisting those oak frames up into location might be very un-fun, though.

[CS in Low Hud]

They'll be heavy - but I gotta believe that the Mahogany variants, laminated with West System, isn't particularly light-weigh either (but... maybe I'm off base here - I built a canoe using that epoxy, and over-did the amounts - it's a great boat, but a bear to portage as a result. Maybe a lighter touch has less of a weight impact).

Chris

[Haldeman1773 (WavyGlass)]

Well, I guess the decision was made for me, as I found a local mill with 16/4 (4") kiln-dried oak. It cost $260 for enough to do one window, but for the amount of time I'm sinking into this project, I don't mind spending a little on materials. Now my search switches over to finding moldings, or some good lumber from which to mill my own. I did some searches for someone who stocks and sells some older molding profiles (I think mine are quite common for the era), but did not turn up much.

Thanks!