Doorknobs- old to new to old again

[phil]

if you happen to run into old british thread patterns, you can still get the wrenches, taps and dies, nuts and bolts. as an example , look here :
https://spaenaur.com/catalog/B254/#zoom=z

if you search for BSA threads you will find pages for triumph and norton motorcycles, Ive seen them used in old British machinery, and old British vehicles. land rovers and such. old British woodworking machines like Robinson for example.

usually I'd just drill and tap to a larger size. if there is enough meat. if the hole is all torn out you can fill it by welding or braising , or silver solder up the hole and drill it then tap it again. you can also use thread inserts. there are many different styles of inserts but basically you drill and tap to a larger size drive in the insert. some have thread locking devices or you can use Loctite.
he brand people often refer to is helicoil they look like a spring and require a special tap. there are other brands of thread inserts and some different designs though.
The insert provides a new internal thread.

If you dont want to order setscrews but you have a little bolt that fits, just cut the head off and cut a slot for a screwdriver with a hacksaw. take a fine file and dress up the end so it isnt' rough and ugly.
custom sizes of threads are very rare. People who think they have run into a bastard size are usually just mistaken. It's really common to see inexperienced people jam threads together that dont fit and this will definitely leave them with a messed up hole and frustration. next they will often throw up their arms in confusion and frustration and exclaim they are dealing with a bastard thread pattern, this behaviour is commonplace. I see it happen very often lots of people invent ways to fix stuff using whatever they have nearby, that's a very common situation with a doorknob.

with experience when stuff wont fit the person will stop and find out why. identify the thread first, you can chase the thread with a tap or die if they are a bit damaged. if an external thread is damaged then you can also use thread files. sometimes I have to fix things with reverse threads, such as a turnbuckle or a nut on the blade of a saw is often reverse thread. If I can file the thread to repair it rather than removing the arbor and its bearings I do that. if It's all chewed its a larger repair to replace the arbor s itrs bearings , more disassembly. the nuts are easy to get.
You wont go into home depot and buy reverse thread fasteners, or taps and dies for them , but they are available , usually special order though a supplier of fasteners. I'm often called to fix stuff that is stripped and it is usually caused by people who just can't judge how much strength it takes to do damage, or they think they can just get away with screwing a metric bolt and a standard nut together. I'm often called to fix situations like that. in most circumstances I can work my way out of it without needing to special order new parts. That inevitably causes machine downtime ,so a repair is often the best solution rather than downtime waiting for a new part. also many parts like castings can get damaged and in many cases the replacement of a part is not an great option since it is a part of a larger assembly. as a millwright I assess the situation carefully and effect repairs. I can machine parts when necessary. in some cases where the parts are very precision or if I don't have the equipment, or the tooling would add cost, I consult a machine shop. usually I can machine my own parts but in some cases for example the part may be too big for my lathe or milling machine. sometimes the part is too sophisticated for a replacement to be simply manufactured in shop. If it get into precise or unusual machining operations I then utilize a machine shop because that is their specialty. a machine shop has many specific tools for that trade. If someone is into restoring old motorcycles they wont let a stripped thread stop them , they wil in manmy cases go to great lengths to make the repair just right and often the cosmetics are important and not just the strength of repair... and motorcycles rattle a lot especially harleys because they are essentially designed to be out of balance. other bikes like italian ones are machined to completely different standards and to really rev up they need to be better balanced.. as machines are made lighter and more precision the fit becomes more important to prevent them flying apart. people who work on racing engines work to very high fit tolerances. If you strip a bolt on a vintage harley it can be really expensive so it makes sense to go further with repairs.

I just had to fix a tool that has a stripped acme thread nut used for the vice to clamp metal. I ended up replacing the spindle for redi-rod to make it normal threads so I could provide the nut to fit it . but that involved machining both ends of the redi-rod, one needed to be machined go into the clamp and a slot so it could be held with a c clip the other had to be sized for the knob and have a tapered pin drilled reamed and fitted. The reason I went to that extent is because the machine is obsolete and parts are NLA. while the acme thread was used originally I converted it to 3/4 national coarse and welded down a nut instead of the mechanism it had which I could not buy any longer.

there is a medium size of 1/4 inch standard. 1/4 - 28 is fine and 1/4 - 20 is coarse but there is a less common size of 1/4- 24 that will occasionally throw people. another is metric extra fine, these are very fine threads you dont see too often. you wont see them in a doorknob.

on some machines Ill run into a little trick where they have put a set screw in to lock a part , then a second set screw down the same hole to lock the first setscrew. so you loosen the first one and have no idea they have put a second one under it and wonder why the part isn't coming loose, or why it wont tighten up. and you can't tell until you completely remove the first setscrew, then feel down there with an allen key to discover the second one.

it isn't common to discover an old doorknob has a worn out hole or one damaged from someone putting a sheet metal screw or whatever will grab down the hole and mashing the threads. then you need to effect a thread repair. doorknobs dont have lot of extra meat to incorporate a thread insert. If stripped and you dont want to go bigger I would then use silver solder or braising to fill the hole and start over. the re drill and re tap to something close to the original size so the repair is less visible. you can do that with only a common propane blowtorch, you need the right flux, other than that it's just like soldering , just hotter. If it's iron the solder will melt about when the steel turns orange. If the piece as a lot of mass then you might need a oxy-acytelene torch or at least a plumbers torch. or use nap gas instead of propane.

if the knob that you are fixing is brass you can use silver solder rather than braising because it melts at a lower temp. If you exceed the melting temp you can melt the brass. you can try and use things like JB weld but they arent' usually as strong as metal so sometimes they work but on a doorknob I'd use metal to make the repair bit more sturdy. I use stuff like that but not usually in this sort of repair. It can work but depends on the strength you need.

usually one source for the detail about what was used is in the parts book , Singer may have created threads but to do that you'd have to be a big enough company to warrant making the taps and dies. Singer has good parts catalogs and info for all their machines online. often the best source for parts is singer or by parting out old machines since the parts are mostly unique. if you look up the serial number of a singer it will give lots of info.

people who work on clocks or watches also come into small sizes and unusual stuff but this isn't common stuff for people to be taking apart. If you are into working on clocks then there are all sorts of special tools that are specific to that trade. If that was your trade you would probably have little bottles of very fine screws and stuff that you robbed from any clock that wasn't worth repairing. I dont generally work on stuff that small but you can get teeny tiny taps and dies if you do.

some doorknobs just have the threaded collar on the knob , others have threads in the square shaft. another way you might repair them is to put the threads in the shaft and just have a taper where the knob is.

often if i have something like a shaft and a collar I will drill a hole right through and insert a spring pin. another way to tackle it is to drill a hole , then use a tapered reamer then use a tapered pin. I often run into the situation where the hole has become egg shaped in which case I will turn the shaft or the hole and make a bushing to take up the space and remove any play. then ream the pin holes a bit further to restore those.
Metric and standard taper pins are often found switched up. metric is a 1: 50 taper standard is a 1:48 taper the reamers and pins are different but so close that often you can get away with doing it wrong if the fit isn't super critical you can get away with it.

-- so whit something like a knob that had a setscrew that is stripped a quick way is to just drill right through and knock in a pin so the knob is then held on by either a tapered or spring pin. this will work in other circumstances but a doorknob doesnt' jhave a lot of materil so a pin right through may not be acceptable. often I have to do this sort of things like handles of machines that have come loose.

some things can be found such as a window latch that is antique and specific but due to years of use sometimes pins and shafts wear. they can be turned so they are concentric and then re bushed. in an old car restoration it is common to have to re work the door hinges since new ones may not be obtainable for an old vehicle you may for example drill the hole larger and make an oversized hinge pin.
this is an example of where you need to make parts fit and repair them. often if this sort of thing happens with new machinery the repair is simply to replace the part. all the rockers and pillow shafts in my old car engine were worn , rather than new parts I made bushings and carefully fitted them. I had to make the rocker shaft smaller. I had to grind that on the lathe because the steel is too hard to cut in the normal manor. I made all new bushings slightly undersized and used brasso to fit them by hand so in the end there was no slop and only enough clearance for oil.
likewise I could't find brake caliper parts I mane my own pistons from stainless for my brake calipers. the old ones were chromed but developed rust so I made new ones.

if you have a knob where the screw fits but its a bit wiggly you can try JB weld or a similar material like locktite it may work. If you want to get stuff like that apart the glues cant' take too much heat so often warming them up with a torch will break the bond. this is a bit mickey mouse but it may work in some cases.
locktite is a company actually not a product they make a range of products for this sort of thing. I often just use the locktite when I'm putting stuff together that I dont think I will ever take apart. an example is installing a thread insert where I wouldn't want the insert itself to ever come back out. I'll use JB weld it in some cases like on a drill press sometimes they drill into the cast iron table.. so then Ill fill the holes to restore the table. Its not as hard as a welding operation. I could weld up the holesor try to fill the holes with brass or nicle welding rod, but and at least it repairs all the holes without making the job too long, to keep the repair practical. the heat of welding can distort things like that and welding up cast iron can be iffy.

sometimes a thing like a broken casting can be repaired, what i will sometimes do is drill tiny holes in both edges and sew it together with wire and also use the JB weld and it gets in to the joint and all around the wire. It is visible but then I can use the JB weld like bondo to make a pretty good surface repair, to hide the stitching. that can work on things like a plastic hinge where the repair needs strength and glue alone is not sufficient. I often get tablesaw fences handed to me where they have cut the fence cheek by putting it too close to the blade. Ill use JB weld to fill the dibit and make the fence flat then paint it and it makes an acceptable repair. the cheeks for the saws are hard to obtain so this is just easier than replacing the whole fence cheek. you can drill and tap into liquid steel or JB weld but then the strength needs to be assessed. it can be very strong if there is enough penetration of the threads. in a doorknob the threaded portion isn't very long so it might be a weak point and a future failure.. but all those products do have their place and could work. If you use it to fill a somewhat loose thread and then recut the thread with a tap then you may actually be just using the material to give a bit more strenght and take the wiggle out and the old threads may be doing some of the work still.

in general if parts fit tightly there is no wiggle, no movement between the parts thus no wear but if you have a doorknob that fits a bit sloppy and the screw is a bit loose then over time the movement of those parts against each other creates more wear and over time and thousands of movements over time, things fall apart... so a drop of JB weld or locktite or liquid steel in some cases can just remove that wiggle, and the resulting wear caused by the wiggle. what can also happen is people go putting red locktite on a setscrew with a screwdriver slot , then they try to loosen it and can't ... then they strip the screw slot... see the slippery slope here? ,, then they get stuck.. so don't just automatically use it if not necessary. there are liquid fasteners that are intended to be broken and others that are intended to be permanent. using a screwdriver that really fits and isnt' all rounded out on your first attempt can be important .

with screws in doorknobs , often the screw may have a tapered shape under the head, this taper fits a taper in the knob so when the screw is tight it is this tapered section that does a lot of the holding. what happens then is someone comes along and finds a screw that fits , yes it fits the square shaft, but it doesnt' have a taper like the hole in the knob does. after that it works but there is wiggle and things do wear, Ive seen ones that are really worn. If you like the setup then there is almost always a way to effect a repair but this may be out of the realm of some. with modern stuff we just throw stuff out but with antique restoration that isn't an option.

so while any doorknob is repairable when we have a member looking though a pile of old doorknobs in a junk store and coming across a bunch of worn out ones, screw missing mismatched shanks, etc, we need to look at the practicality of repairs. If every knob in your house was unique and you had that one needing some repairs yes it is possible. If you are not comfortable with such repairs and you just want to go buy old stuff and use it then you may find some is pretty worn, then maybe your best recourse is to go new or find a better old one or a repro, than to try to effect suitable repairs yourself.

often restoration is impractical and still fun though , It depends why you are doing it. I spent part of my weekend working on my old chair. It was riddled with nail holes so I cut a bunch of ,,,essentially toothpicks and started hammering them in all the holes with glue. it had literally thousands of old nail holes. it will restore the frame a bit, an upholsterer would not take this sort of time. I just wanted the frame to not look like swiss cheese before I started with the new webbing and on to the upholstery.. If I worked in an upholstery shop and did that I'd have a mad boss explaining he just couldn't charge the time and that the frame cant' be seen with the upholstery back on ... So sometimes these things are impractical and still done out of determination by those who like restoring things even though they aren't financially practical. sometimes it is just about winning, or about having fun with the challenge.

I remember years ago , spending a whole day fixing a broken part on my car with my father. I said dad this isn't practical it took all day to repair the part and its only worth 5 bucks.. he said yes but you didn't need to spend anything it just took time and you learned in the process.. at around 16 that seemed so impractical. Now that I am called upon to fix a huge variety of mechanical issues I realize his motivation was to teach me. It wasn't because we couldn't buy a 5 dollar part. If you make a habit of taking on challenges then you learn as you go and it takes time but then the next thing is Im making parts for obsolete machinery and in some cases being able to do that makes a world of difference.. sometimes you use the little experiences to a fuller extent and realize ah there was a reason for taking such time and not just giving in. even when the financial and time spent makes absolutely no sense, the experience of these challenges can be really rewarding.

[Willa]

if you happen to run into old british thread patterns, you can still get the wrenches, taps and dies, nuts and bolts. as an example , look here :
https://spaenaur.com/catalog/B254/#zoom=z

if you search for BSA threads you will find pages for triumph and norton motorcycles, Ive seen them used in old British machinery, and old British vehicles. land rovers and such. old British woodworking machines like Robinson for example.

usually I'd just drill and tap to a larger size. if there is enough meat. if the hole is all torn out you can fill it by welding or braising , or silver solder up the hole and drill it then tap it again. you can also use thread inserts. there are many different styles of inserts but basically you drill and tap to a larger size drive in the insert. some have thread locking devices or you can use Loctite.
he brand people often refer to is helicoil they look like a spring and require a special tap. there are other brands of thread inserts and some different designs though.
The insert provides a new internal thread.

If you dont want to order setscrews but you have a little bolt that fits, just cut the head off and cut a slot for a screwdriver with a hacksaw. take a fine file and dress up the end so it isnt' rough and ugly.
custom sizes of threads are very rare. People who think they have run into a bastard size are usually just mistaken. It's really common to see inexperienced people jam threads together that dont fit and this will definitely leave them with a messed up hole and frustration. next they will often throw up their arms in confusion and frustration and exclaim they are dealing with a bastard thread pattern, this behaviour is commonplace. I see it happen very often lots of people invent ways to fix stuff using whatever they have nearby, that's a very common situation with a doorknob.

with experience when stuff wont fit the person will stop and find out why. identify the thread first, you can chase the thread with a tap or die if they are a bit damaged. if an external thread is damaged then you can also use thread files. sometimes I have to fix things with reverse threads, such as a turnbuckle or a nut on the blade of a saw is often reverse thread. If I can file the thread to repair it rather than removing the arbor and its bearings I do that. if It's all chewed its a larger repair to replace the arbor s itrs bearings , more disassembly. the nuts are easy to get.
You wont go into home depot and buy reverse thread fasteners, or taps and dies for them , but they are available , usually special order though a supplier of fasteners. I'm often called to fix stuff that is stripped and it is usually caused by people who just can't judge how much strength it takes to do damage, or they think they can just get away with screwing a metric bolt and a standard nut together. I'm often called to fix situations like that. in most circumstances I can work my way out of it without needing to special order new parts. That inevitably causes machine downtime ,so a repair is often the best solution rather than downtime waiting for a new part. also many parts like castings can get damaged and in many cases the replacement of a part is not an great option since it is a part of a larger assembly. as a millwright I assess the situation carefully and effect repairs. I can machine parts when necessary. in some cases where the parts are very precision or if I don't have the equipment, or the tooling would add cost, I consult a machine shop. usually I can machine my own parts but in some cases for example the part may be too big for my lathe or milling machine. sometimes the part is too sophisticated for a replacement to be simply manufactured in shop. If it get into precise or unusual machining operations I then utilize a machine shop because that is their specialty. a machine shop has many specific tools for that trade. If someone is into restoring old motorcycles they wont let a stripped thread stop them , they wil in manmy cases go to great lengths to make the repair just right and often the cosmetics are important and not just the strength of repair... and motorcycles rattle a lot especially harleys because they are essentially designed to be out of balance. other bikes like italian ones are machined to completely different standards and to really rev up they need to be better balanced.. as machines are made lighter and more precision the fit becomes more important to prevent them flying apart. people who work on racing engines work to very high fit tolerances. If you strip a bolt on a vintage harley it can be really expensive so it makes sense to go further with repairs.

I just had to fix a tool that has a stripped acme thread nut used for the vice to clamp metal. I ended up replacing the spindle for redi-rod to make it normal threads so I could provide the nut to fit it . but that involved machining both ends of the redi-rod, one needed to be machined go into the clamp and a slot so it could be held with a c clip the other had to be sized for the knob and have a tapered pin drilled reamed and fitted. The reason I went to that extent is because the machine is obsolete and parts are NLA. while the acme thread was used originally I converted it to 3/4 national coarse and welded down a nut instead of the mechanism it had which I could not buy any longer.

there is a medium size of 1/4 inch standard. 1/4 - 28 is fine and 1/4 - 20 is coarse but there is a less common size of 1/4- 24 that will occasionally throw people. another is metric extra fine, these are very fine threads you dont see too often. you wont see them in a doorknob.

on some machines Ill run into a little trick where they have put a set screw in to lock a part , then a second set screw down the same hole to lock the first setscrew. so you loosen the first one and have no idea they have put a second one under it and wonder why the part isn't coming loose, or why it wont tighten up. and you can't tell until you completely remove the first setscrew, then feel down there with an allen key to discover the second one.

it isn't common to discover an old doorknob has a worn out hole or one damaged from someone putting a sheet metal screw or whatever will grab down the hole and mashing the threads. then you need to effect a thread repair. doorknobs dont have lot of extra meat to incorporate a thread insert. If stripped and you dont want to go bigger I would then use silver solder or braising to fill the hole and start over. the re drill and re tap to something close to the original size so the repair is less visible. you can do that with only a common propane blowtorch, you need the right flux, other than that it's just like soldering , just hotter. If it's iron the solder will melt about when the steel turns orange. If the piece as a lot of mass then you might need a oxy-acytelene torch or at least a plumbers torch. or use nap gas instead of propane.

if the knob that you are fixing is brass you can use silver solder rather than braising because it melts at a lower temp. If you exceed the melting temp you can melt the brass. you can try and use things like JB weld but they arent' usually as strong as metal so sometimes they work but on a doorknob I'd use metal to make the repair bit more sturdy. I use stuff like that but not usually in this sort of repair. It can work but depends on the strength you need.

usually one source for the detail about what was used is in the parts book , Singer may have created threads but to do that you'd have to be a big enough company to warrant making the taps and dies. Singer has good parts catalogs and info for all their machines online. often the best source for parts is singer or by parting out old machines since the parts are mostly unique. if you look up the serial number of a singer it will give lots of info.

people who work on clocks or watches also come into small sizes and unusual stuff but this isn't common stuff for people to be taking apart. If you are into working on clocks then there are all sorts of special tools that are specific to that trade. If that was your trade you would probably have little bottles of very fine screws and stuff that you robbed from any clock that wasn't worth repairing. I dont generally work on stuff that small but you can get teeny tiny taps and dies if you do.

some doorknobs just have the threaded collar on the knob , others have threads in the square shaft. another way you might repair them is to put the threads in the shaft and just have a taper where the knob is.

often if i have something like a shaft and a collar I will drill a hole right through and insert a spring pin. another way to tackle it is to drill a hole , then use a tapered reamer then use a tapered pin. I often run into the situation where the hole has become egg shaped in which case I will turn the shaft or the hole and make a bushing to take up the space and remove any play. then ream the pin holes a bit further to restore those.
Metric and standard taper pins are often found switched up. metric is a 1: 50 taper standard is a 1:48 taper the reamers and pins are different but so close that often you can get away with doing it wrong if the fit isn't super critical you can get away with it.

-- so whit something like a knob that had a setscrew that is stripped a quick way is to just drill right through and knock in a pin so the knob is then held on by either a tapered or spring pin. this will work in other circumstances but a doorknob doesnt' jhave a lot of materil so a pin right through may not be acceptable. often I have to do this sort of things like handles of machines that have come loose.

some things can be found such as a window latch that is antique and specific but due to years of use sometimes pins and shafts wear. they can be turned so they are concentric and then re bushed. in an old car restoration it is common to have to re work the door hinges since new ones may not be obtainable for an old vehicle you may for example drill the hole larger and make an oversized hinge pin.
this is an example of where you need to make parts fit and repair them. often if this sort of thing happens with new machinery the repair is simply to replace the part. all the rockers and pillow shafts in my old car engine were worn , rather than new parts I made bushings and carefully fitted them. I had to make the rocker shaft smaller. I had to grind that on the lathe because the steel is too hard to cut in the normal manor. I made all new bushings slightly undersized and used brasso to fit them by hand so in the end there was no slop and only enough clearance for oil.
likewise I could't find brake caliper parts I mane my own pistons from stainless for my brake calipers. the old ones were chromed but developed rust so I made new ones.

if you have a knob where the screw fits but its a bit wiggly you can try JB weld or a similar material like locktite it may work. If you want to get stuff like that apart the glues cant' take too much heat so often warming them up with a torch will break the bond. this is a bit mickey mouse but it may work in some cases.
locktite is a company actually not a product they make a range of products for this sort of thing. I often just use the locktite when I'm putting stuff together that I dont think I will ever take apart. an example is installing a thread insert where I wouldn't want the insert itself to ever come back out. I'll use JB weld it in some cases like on a drill press sometimes they drill into the cast iron table.. so then Ill fill the holes to restore the table. Its not as hard as a welding operation. I could weld up the holesor try to fill the holes with brass or nicle welding rod, but and at least it repairs all the holes without making the job too long, to keep the repair practical. the heat of welding can distort things like that and welding up cast iron can be iffy.

sometimes a thing like a broken casting can be repaired, what i will sometimes do is drill tiny holes in both edges and sew it together with wire and also use the JB weld and it gets in to the joint and all around the wire. It is visible but then I can use the JB weld like bondo to make a pretty good surface repair, to hide the stitching. that can work on things like a plastic hinge where the repair needs strength and glue alone is not sufficient. I often get tablesaw fences handed to me where they have cut the fence cheek by putting it too close to the blade. Ill use JB weld to fill the dibit and make the fence flat then paint it and it makes an acceptable repair. the cheeks for the saws are hard to obtain so this is just easier than replacing the whole fence cheek. you can drill and tap into liquid steel or JB weld but then the strength needs to be assessed. it can be very strong if there is enough penetration of the threads. in a doorknob the threaded portion isn't very long so it might be a weak point and a future failure.. but all those products do have their place and could work. If you use it to fill a somewhat loose thread and then recut the thread with a tap then you may actually be just using the material to give a bit more strenght and take the wiggle out and the old threads may be doing some of the work still.

in general if parts fit tightly there is no wiggle, no movement between the parts thus no wear but if you have a doorknob that fits a bit sloppy and the screw is a bit loose then over time the movement of those parts against each other creates more wear and over time and thousands of movements over time, things fall apart... so a drop of JB weld or locktite or liquid steel in some cases can just remove that wiggle, and the resulting wear caused by the wiggle. what can also happen is people go putting red locktite on a setscrew with a screwdriver slot , then they try to loosen it and can't ... then they strip the screw slot... see the slippery slope here? ,, then they get stuck.. so don't just automatically use it if not necessary. there are liquid fasteners that are intended to be broken and others that are intended to be permanent. using a screwdriver that really fits and isnt' all rounded out on your first attempt can be important .

with screws in doorknobs , often the screw may have a tapered shape under the head, this taper fits a taper in the knob so when the screw is tight it is this tapered section that does a lot of the holding. what happens then is someone comes along and finds a screw that fits , yes it fits the square shaft, but it doesnt' have a taper like the hole in the knob does. after that it works but there is wiggle and things do wear, Ive seen ones that are really worn. If you like the setup then there is almost always a way to effect a repair but this may be out of the realm of some. with modern stuff we just throw stuff out but with antique restoration that isn't an option.

so while any doorknob is repairable when we have a member looking though a pile of old doorknobs in a junk store and coming across a bunch of worn out ones, screw missing mismatched shanks, etc, we need to look at the practicality of repairs. If every knob in your house was unique and you had that one needing some repairs yes it is possible. If you are not comfortable with such repairs and you just want to go buy old stuff and use it then you may find some is pretty worn, then maybe your best recourse is to go new or find a better old one or a repro, than to try to effect suitable repairs yourself.

often restoration is impractical and still fun though , It depends why you are doing it. I spent part of my weekend working on my old chair. It was riddled with nail holes so I cut a bunch of ,,,essentially toothpicks and started hammering them in all the holes with glue. it had literally thousands of old nail holes. it will restore the frame a bit, an upholsterer would not take this sort of time. I just wanted the frame to not look like swiss cheese before I started with the new webbing and on to the upholstery.. If I worked in an upholstery shop and did that I'd have a mad boss explaining he just couldn't charge the time and that the frame cant' be seen with the upholstery back on ... So sometimes these things are impractical and still done out of determination by those who like restoring things even though they aren't financially practical. sometimes it is just about winning, or about having fun with the challenge.

TLDR: If you are a journeyman millwright with some time on your hands and a shop's worth of tools you can correct the missing set screw situation on an antique doorknob.

[phil]

It's not just about having a ticket, a lot of this is about having the skills and determination to do things out of your realm. as an example Ive had to lead thousands of people through situations where they were simply a machine operator and not necessarily highly trained. in doing that I often had to get a read on peoples abilities without making it personal. an example is a few questions about using a meter before leading some cutomer into electrical troubleshooting even if I can tell them where to put the probes and how to read the meter there are certain limits Ive found that often farmers are very resourceful and able in this way. yes you do need a few tools that some may or may not want to buy. each tool I think of as an extension of my abilities so I do collect them. I meet many especially younger people who didn't gain practical mechanical experience at an early age and generally that limit their abilities and they will just say well I cant' do that or dont know how. in many circumstances if they instead realize they can do stuff but dont know how they can find the experience rewarding but every situation is different.
some on the forum are more resourceful than that and there is so much on youtube.

when I got into radio restoration I found that I could ask questions of older people who knew antique electronics much better than myself. I found help through forums and such and that really helped me learn.. at one time people were not free with such info and especially with the technical documentation but now it is freely exchanged. when I got into that I realized the internet was new and it was really the first time I could get this sort of specialized help and all the info I needed or could read. I wouldn't' expect everyone to be interested in the same things as myself but I do recognize that many on the forum also like taking on challenges and working through the steps to achieve in many case things other than they were at first comfortable with.

often it is a certain sense of self empowerment as much as it is the original abilities and I suppose I like to encourage that and involve myself in it. assisting each other with learning is a vital part of the forum. the learning we do as a group is rewarding and I think it's important. I do believe in lifelong learning. not everyone does. many hit a certain age and become sort of stagnant. for many taking on different challenges and learning along the way is where the fun is, for others maybe its a bit different. one of the strengths of the forum is access to people of a variety of skills and interests. I was taking some instructional courses recently and one thing I got from that is that adults especially older adults cannot simply be taught, first they need the reason why they want to learn a specific thing. if they dont have that buy in their eyes glaze over, they stop paying attention.. older people need to buy in.. otherwise if they think gee I dont need to know this then it's not being retained.
with young children it is much different. children have different methods of learning than adults and they can actually absorb things very quickly. I wouldn't have the patience for dealing with children myself because they have issues of maturity that I'm not used to tending to.

I probably went into a big explanation of procedures because Willa had a doorknob that she wanted to fix or at least found to have the wrong screws and got a bit stuck. I found myself trying to work though the situation in an explanation looking at different angles. different methods. perhaps partly because I found the act of explaining it cha challenge to myself. My explanation likely was too detailed for her to really dig into and care about but that's OK others may read it slightly differently. It certainly wasn't' meant to be an insult to anyone's abilities or any such attempt at belittling anyone. I'm sure I made her eyes glaze over trying to read it all.. oh well..

for myself I do get carried away in explanations. I could probably start with a bit about why I am explaining things and perhaps work on shortening my explanations. or at least making the flow better. I went into discussion about pinning a shaft and a knob together but that wasn't really practical for a doorknob and could be omitted. some have the ability to condense what they are saying better than I can and to keep the topic more focused. these could be good things for me to focus on and in the meantime , thanks for your patience with the long explanations.

[Willa]

Everyone - gather up your antique set screw-less doorknobs and send them to Phil so he can SHOW US his repair technique.

[mjt]

I simply ordered a couple of matching doorknobs (with set screws and appropriate spindles) from House of Antique Hardware. If it bugs me enough, I might antique the brass rather than waiting for it to patina naturally.

Way cheaper than buying a bunch of tools I'm never going to use again. And saved me a ton of time. I've got other stuff I have to do.

[phil]

restoration and replacement are different things. sure you can replace them. Id rather restore them if possible and resort to that only if it's really necessary.

[Willa]

Sheesh, you can buy an antique porcelain doorknob on Ebay with a post and the original set screws for about $ 20.00 before shipping, less per piece if you buy a lot that has some duds, more if you want perfect with no dings or paint splatter.

Really not worth fighting some restoration battle outside of some fine steel wool and picking off paint specks.

[mjt]

restoration and replacement are different things. sure you can replace them. Id rather restore them if possible and resort to that only if it's really necessary.

I know. And I already spent way too many hours mucking about at the local salvage place. They had lots of matching doorknobs. All were missing their set screws. I already have some doorknobs without set screws. Why would I want more? I also purchased all kinds of set screws from different places, none of which worked. I have a 5-quart ice cream pail of knobs that I can send you if you want to fabricate some brass set screws for me. I'm expecting the screws to have the proper patina on the exposed head.

I should also mention that I was installing these knobs in the attic, in what used to be servants quarters. The original knobs were long gone after a fire in the attic in the 1940s. The knobs and doors that were there before our gut and remodel were of lesser quality (servants quarters, remember). I was recycling doors and knobs from elsewhere in the house.

So, I'm not that worried that 4 of my 60+ doorknobs aren't original. I have working doorknobs and I got to see my kids play in the state tennis and football tournaments rather than waste more time on $2 worth of set screws. YMMV

[phil]

some knobs are really beautiful and worthy of saving, especially when they match all the others. Mine are simple basically tin, but Ill keep them original. a few were switched but mine aren't too hard to find. like with radio knobs some can be specific and some very beautiful and specific.

People looking may actually find an abundance of them, Because the old door knobs dont meet code. Here anyway. Now they need to be handles. Most wont change them in their houses but may be forced to when doing major renovations. old hotels could be replacing all of them. here is an article about the ones at Vancouver city hall being replaced. nothing is sacred anymore

https://www.vancouversun.com/Vancouver+ ... story.html

[Willa]

Building code re: doorknobs is applicable to all NEW building construction.