Architects and loan prioritization....what to do?

[SmellyHouse]

Hi everyone

Well, I spoke to both my mortgage guy and the last 2 architect candidates this week. I think I may be in a pickle.

In terms of architects...

Architect A: Single guy, in business for 20+ years. Does a lot of great work. Gets the 'old house' vibe and was a builder in previous life. Does big and small jobs. A little 'gentle' for my pushy demeanor. Has never done work in my town, but has done surrounding towns. Didn't really feel the 'vibe' but good guy, good architect who seems to want the work, but goes on an hourly rate. Concerned a bit about cost.

Architect B: Small firm (3 ppl). He's been in business for 20 years too. Does bigger, fancier jobs (did one of the recent 'This old house' homes) mine would be his smallest commission, I think. But we seem to 'click' and he lived in my neighborhood for 10+ years (I think he got divorced after kids were grown and he switched teams ). I liked portions of his work, but some was a bit too 'newish' for me. But then again, I know what I want. Fixed fee. He wanted to look at his schedule to make sure he could fit me in.

I think I want to go with Architect B. Is it wrong to go with 'gut' on this? Feels a bit like I'm choosing it based upon gut...but my gut also told me to pick the carpenter who ruined my subfloor.

Secondly....spoke with my loan guy this week I am likely going to do an FHA backed construction loan (105% LTV). So I culled comparable sales and calculated my after renovation house value. My house value is likely lower than I originally thought, mostly due to my house being so tiny. So, not sure I can get a loan big enough to do the 'phase 1' work (all plumbing an electric, plus new kitchen and bath, likely around 100k). Given the house's state of disrepair, I think I need to do it all at once, because if an inspector came in, he would pull my occupancy permit). Do I have any other options? I can't do the work myself, it's just me, and most weeks I am working 60+ hours.

Even if I did electric and plumbing first, my subs (who I love) want to pull permits....

Figure I would pay the architect out of pocket, get the plans and estimates, then maybe sit tight for a year and save my pennies????

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[heartwood]

curious, what makes you feel you need an architect for the work you plan to do? does the bank require plans with an architect's seal? have you asked for references from the architects? can architect 'A' offer a 'not to exceed' price so you have an idea of what to plan for? can he match/beat the architect 'B' price? have you considered a designer rather than an architect? if you are confident of what you want, can you not convey this to the builder/contractor? if you are willing to hire people in the trades and act as the 'general contractor' overseeing their work, you will save money by not paying the builder to do so...seems like your work week may not allow for that...seek out references for all trades as some talk the talk but lack the ability to walk the walk...

once you've done your homework, your gut can be pretty reliable but noone bats 1000!

...jade

[SmellyHouse]

Hi Jade....

I thought I would use an architect because I'm likely going to have to do the work in 2 (or maybe even 3 stages)....internals & kit/bath (phase 1), garage (maybe phase 2) & two story addition (phase 2 or 3). So I thought it best to get an architect to make sure the 'master plan' is done right..then I could use the builder to execute in phases. And I have a very funky sloping lot where the garage/addition would go....so concerned about drainage and making sure the addition 'fits' the style and proportion of the house. I am concerned about getting something 'tacked on'..and given the house is so tiny (950 sq feet), I think that will be a challenge. My 2 next door neighbors didn't use an architect and their additions are awful.

At least from what my primary bank told me, construction loans require a GC .I think I have the knowledge now to be my own GC (I GC'd my condo kitchen & bath renovation)...but with my schedule, I really can't (unless you want to come down to Arlington to do it for me ). I wish I could...it would save me 15-20%. I wish work would pay that overhead But maybe I need to talk to more banks to make sure that's not just a Wells Fargo requirement.

I tried to push Architect A into at least an estimate of his fees, but he was pretty hesitant (he gave me an estimate for 'as is' drawings, 15% of the total fee...but even that, he gave me one estimate at first, but by the end of the visit, he had cut that by 25%). It also seemed like Architect B let me do a bit more myself (i.e. plot plan, construction site visits 'as needed')...which I liked. Architect B liked to get the money done 'up front' and it seemed like Architect B's estimate would be 1/4 less than Architect A's. It also just seemed like Architect B would be more fun to work with...but I'm concerned I'm substituting architectural excellence for 'fun'. But you are right, I should call references. I should also ask for references for jobs gone bad....but it's likely I wouldn't get those.

[SkipW]

As an option, you may want to check around for some really good builder/renovators.

The builder I worked for last had 40 years of experience working in/on old homes. We would go into an old house and totally redo/add/remodel etc and it always looked appropriate and fitting. Sometimes we would have to gut a home down to the studs and rebuild the bones from the inside out and the owner would make changes on the fly as to adding a dormer or even part of an entire floor. To this builder it was just another challenge and we made it happen.

That kind of experience, being able to 'think on your feet' in a sense was what made the man an incredible resource. Possibly, through research, you could find a similar builder with the same abilities.

As for the electrical and plumbing, I would think that any good tradesman would be able to account for the potential of an addition and do the updating of the current house accordingly. You would just need to be very explicit in telling them what and where you imagined the addition and it's components. That way you could proceed with updating the current structure without the expense of an architect or possibly even a GC. That would save two expenses up front for more vigorous work later in the addition.

Just some quick thoughts, good luck with the project. I know it's been a long time coming.

[CS in Low Hud]

We used an architect for our addition, and I would certainly do it that way again, if I had to. I went with a guy similar to your "Architect A" choice - soft spoken, self employed, worked on a per/hour basis, gets the old-house vibe, ect. I had very specific plans that I had already worked up myself, so I really wanted someone who could turn those plans into blueprints. It does take time to get into a groove with someone in any creative endeavor, so there were some missteps in the initial planning period, and I probably paid for some hours that weren't needed. He floated (with plans) the idea of re-positioning the front door and creating a center hall in the original part of the house, for example. Not interested. But other problems he was able to solve - fitting in a small office, and talking me out of trying to make the attic into livable space (he was absolutely correct).

Here was the major advantages of using an architect for me:

• Created detailed blueprints, including numerous detailed blow-ups of tricky parts of the plan. This was critical for me, because we have very rigorous oversight in this town by the building inspector and his department. Plus it allowed for very accurate apples-to-apples bids from contractors

• Solved various space configuration issues, that resulted in a plan that was very close to what I had been wanting... but improved the layout in several significant ways (like the office).

• He came with me to help advocate for me at the town's architectural review board, and zoning variance board.

• He had a list of tradespeople that he works with regularly, so I was able to tap into those resources as if I was a "steady client" versus a one-off job. This was HUGE, resulting in (I believe) better quality work, at reasonable rates.

• Solved problems that cropped up as they occurred, and created new blueprints as needed, for dealing with the surprises that will inevitably occur when dealing with old houses.

In the end, I paid about what I would have paid a for a project-fee-based architect, so no savings there. But I would say that, either way, he was definitely well worth the money.

Chris

[pqtex]

Since you are doing things in stages, I think it is a great idea to have a master plan drawn up. That doesn't mean you can't make changes to what you want along the way, but when you are hiring contractors or subcontractors or carpenters, or whatever, you have a very clear plan to convey exactly what you want and expect from the project. So much different than trying to explain to several different people over time and projects. I wanted to do that when I moved into my house. I had the money (then) to pay for either a designer or architect or preservation carpenter to assist me with drawing up a plan for work to be done in stages. I knew I was on a pay-as-you-go basis (no debt, no mortgage), and I knew it would be done over a long period of time, mostly by myself or hiring out what I couldn't do. I have a lot of ideas, a lot of get-up-and-go, but I get paralyzed by not knowing how to put it all together or what order to do it in, or whether my ideas will form a cohesive end project that really works, I really needed advice for that, to take my ideas and make a plan. There were things that I didn't know I needed, structurally, or things that had to be done in a certain order, and I needed help planning that out, too. Unfortunately, I had family members surrounding me telling me what a bad idea it was to spend money just for someone to tell me what to do. And unfortunately, I ended up not going with my own gut feeling that it was something that "I" needed. Maybe they don't need that kind of direction for their projects, but I did and still do. I think I'd be a lot farther along if I'd been able to rely on a good project plan. I think it would have been money well spent, assuming it was reasonable and not terribly expensive. I can't advise on which guy to go with, but I know of a really great carpenter here, who is pretty expensive. He charges by the hour also, not by the job. It drives me crazy to ask for a general idea of what something will cost and he won't give me any kind of a time estimate at all. It just takes whatever time it takes, and I don't know until he's through with the job. He understands old houses, but I finally quit hiring him because of it, despite how good he is. I was frustrated by the way he worked. Be sure you can handle that.

Good luck. I hope you really are happy with your home, despite all the issues you had. I remember the first photos you put up, including the back yard, which backs up to the park, if I remember correctly. I think that is a wonderful thing.