Flooring Pickle

[mkiehn20]

Okay, you guys. I am in a bit of a pickle here with our 1916 bungalow. At some point in the home's history, vinyl sheet flooring was laid directly on top of the hardwoods in our dining room. This was because the home was converted into apartments, and the dining room was made into a kitchen. Why a kitchen couldn't have beautiful wood floors is beyond me, but...I digress. Knowing the time frame in which the vinyl floor was put in, we decided to send off a sample for asbestos testing. Unfortunately, we got the results today and they were not what I was hoping for! To have the floors abated would cost more than our current budget for our entire reno, so it's out of the question for now. The abatement pros told us that even if we did have it done, they couldn't guarantee the hardwoods could be salvaged because the vinyl was adhered directly on top. Boo. I am also unwilling to take the abatement on myself. As I posted before, I have a very young child in the house and I'm just not willing to put my family at risk.

So now we look at encapsulation. That vinyl is ugly, and now it also has two square patches cut out where we took the samples. I'm looking at laminate hardwoods, but I know that they will never look like real hardwoods, especially where they abut the original hardwood floor in the living room. What would you do? Try to find the best match we can and live with the quirkiness? Pick a different laminate wood that contrasts with the originals? Go with some different flooring altogether?

Here's what the original planks look like. Any guesses on what the species is? They are 2" planks, which is going to be difficult (impossible?) to find in laminate. In this photo you can also see that the original floors were laid decoratively, with a wide border around the room and the center laid perpendicular. I love the way it looks. This is probably impossible to recreate with laminate installation, right?

IMG_2482.jpg (1.03 MiB) Viewed 813 times

This is a shot from the living room looking into the dining room. You can see where the vinyl meets the hardwoods.

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[Mick_VT]

That wood is oak for sure, thinking it is red oak, but others might be more knowledgeable

[CS in Low Hud]

I agree - it's definitely oak. Maybe red... maybe white. Sometimes the variety was stamped on the underside of the boards, so if you have access to the bottoms, you might check that. For what it's worth, my 1925 Dutch Colonial has the original white oak in the living room and dining room, in 2" widths. The modern standard today is 2 1/4", so I had to mill down new white oak planks when I patched. It's doable with 3/4" thick wood, but probobly not with laminate.

Not to tempt you into doing anything dangerous... but I must say that the danger of asbestos is airborne fibers - fine, friable material - like what's wrapped around pipes as insulation. That's not exactly what you have. I don't want to minimize your concern, but I'd be really tempted to seal off the room, get a bunny suit with hood, a good respirator and a hepa filter shop-vac, a sprayer filled with water, and just remove that stuff myself. Maybe send the family to a hotel for a couple of days. Heck, you've already removed squares for the samples!

There are a number of good mastic removers on the market (I've used SoyGel), so cleaning the original wood, after the fact, while messy, should not be impossible. I removed the vinyl flooring in my kitchen and linoleum tile on the basement stair landing (both of which were over heartpine). SoyGel turned the mastic into very scrapable ooze.

So... I totally respect your concerns - if it's going to cause you stress, you probobly shouldn't do it - but you asked what other folks would do. I restored our place with two little ones living in it, and now they are heading off to college, without elevated lead levels or mesothelioma.

But of course, I am aware - other peoples mileage may vary.

Chris

[mkiehn20]

Chris, I respect your experience when it comes to restoration, but this is something I'm just not comfortable doing. Asbestos can be in the vinyl material itself, and it can also be in the mastic. The idea of sanding a floor that had asbestos in the mastic makes me pretty twitchy.

For the time being, the floors will remain covered up. One day I hope we'll be able to restore them. But in the mean time...what to cover them with?

[SkipW]

Have you looked at engineered flooring? Generally they are made of real hardwood laminated on top of a substrate of plywood. You could most likely find a 'close' oak. They are generally also either 1/2 or 3/4 with a top veneer of something like 1/8 so many are listed as able to be sanded and refinished...so, if you really want to match your current flooring, you could refinish.

Also, looking at your photo, I see you have flooring meeting at 90 degrees. If you were to lay a new floor in the kitchen and do the same, you may not notice the difference in 2" to 2 1/4" if that is what you end up with.

Another option would be to install a true oak floor over the vinyl. Either way, laminate, engineered or true hardwood, you are looking at a height transition, just differing sizes.

Also, not to beat a dead horse, but have you thought of asking a contractor or handyman to give you a quote on removal and refinishing. The 'abatement pros' add on 50% for fear factor as well as containment....

[phil]

I agree with Chris's post as far as what I'd do. I'd remove it. now that you know the house has asbestos you have to declare it on the sale, that's how it is here anyway. I did recently call an asbestos lab and they said the results are confidential and confirmed I dont' go on a naughty list for having found it , if It's positive.

if you are honest and tell any prospective buyers, then not removing it devalues the house so I'd get rid of it.
If you want a cover up, a laminate floating floor would do. at least you don't have to nail it to the old floor like you would if you put a whole new wood floor, also the transition won't be huge as it's only about 1/4" thick.

You could do vinyl flooring or cork. at least cork was used a long time ago so it would be in keeping with the age.
Aside from the asbestos, refinishing the floor is a big job. If it makes sense for you to do a cover up in order to just keep the floor as it is, and move forward with other items, I don't think it's a bad idea. No damage in doing that.

I wouldn't have the heart to nail new flooring on top of that nice oak floor. It's too damaging and to resheet then do that would be too big of a transition. You'd learn to get used to it because you live there, but it wouldn't look nice and guests might trip on it.

[dixie girl]

Suit up get those sheet goods out of there. Just try to do it without creating airborn particles. I used a warm iron to loosen mine years ago and only took a few hours. As for the glue scrape what you can off. I pulled up my flooring turned it over reinstalled it. It looked like new flooring after repair of a few that cracked. I was young and poor with no skills and it worked and to this day it is nice for the people who live there.

[dixie girl]

Suit up get those sheet goods out of there. Just try to do it without creating airborn particles. I used a warm iron to loosen mine years ago and only took a few hours. As for the glue scrape what you can off. I pulled up my flooring turned it over reinstalled it. It looked like new flooring after repair of a few that cracked. I was young and poor with no skills and it worked and to this day it is nice for the people who live there.

[GibsonGM]

I have to agree with those who've come before supporting the fact that home owners CAN DIY remove asbestos tile and other non-friables, and not suffer ill effects, nor harm anyone else. I am a former environmental scientist, and second the notion that if you are properly protected and do the job within the easily-followed guidelines, there is no reason to allow asbestos tile to hold back your plans. Just educate yourself and do what is recommended for containment and PPE. It's not that big a deal, and is NOT hard to do while protecting yourself and others.

It's good that you're being cautious...now, you've got an old home, so time to learn and overcome.

My asbestos coming off, very ugly:
http://i.imgur.com/x1nZpx9.jpg

The reward:
http://i.imgur.com/ljo9lsi.jpg

[1918ColonialRevival]

I agree with the others. I would seal off the other rooms with plastic, open the windows, wear a good respirator (the cartridge kind that's rated for hazardous dust) and take it up a section at a time. I'd bag it as I went and dispose of it properly. When I was done, I'd set up a couple of exhaust fans blowing out the window.

Asbestos is a hazardous material, though I've always believed it's been turned into a witch hunt. I've known people who have had lung problems related to asbestos, but they were all exposed daily in an industrial setting for 30+ years, not casual exposure from removing a vinyl floor. Pretty much everything made prior to the mid/late 1980s had asbestos in it. Automotive brake pads contained asbestos until fairly recently.

Also, I would scrape the wood floors by hand as opposed to sanding.