mjt wrote:The only issue with NOS will be the missing terminal on the switch body for the ground wire. Not the end of the world, though.
I've purchased push button switches from House of Antique Hardware and am happy with them. I have about a dozen or so including some 3-ways and a couple of dimmers.
How long have you had the switches installed for? Any failures so far? HoAH has such nice stuff!
I installed them about 9 years ago. So far no failures. We installed them only in the "public" areas of the house - entry, foyer up and down, living room, dining room, music room and study. We didn't put them in the "private" or servant areas of the house - back hall up and down, bedrooms, bathrooms, etc.
There's a terse post on my blog about them. The photo is of the switches in our dining room. The one on the left is a normal switch that controls the sconces. The one on the right is a dimmer that controls the chandelier. Excuse the paint; the photo is from before we painted that room. Also, the post mentions that I bought something at Kilian. For the life of me I cannot remember what it was if it was for this project (I've bought stuff at both Kilian and HoAH over the years).
I'd just try to avoid that made in china stuff. with a lot of brands ( in general) there was a point where manufacturing went overseas and turned to crap in the process. I see a lot of equipment that was a great brand and then turned to junk but retained the original name for branding purposes. Often the first thing to fail is the cheap Chinese made switches. If you are buying it online "where is it made? " the first question I'd ask.
If you speak with an electrical retailer, You ll find some have better quality stuff. so you can get industrial quality or you can get it cheap. I'm not sure about the repro pushbuttons specifically/ If it is something like a stop button I can get one for like 30 bucks or 200 bucks for industrial quality. You get what you pay for.
be aware if you buy online. there are a lot of these cheap parts that get through with fake CSE or USL markings. Leviton is probably the most common maker here for house type switches. they might be made in mexico too or even in china but I'd trust a part made by a major supplier more than some off brand. If you dig into this look up NEMA and you can learn about the different ratings and things.
some stuff like for example a stop button on an elevator may be required by code to be made up to certain NEMA standards. In machinery I see a lot of failures, broken springs broken plastic bits. the more recent, the less time it lasts for. the stuff rollingout of china is horrible quality.
probably a good bet is to go to an electrical distributor. the same place the electricians go , and talk to them. some of the distributors specialize in the higher end stuff and some try to win customers over with price. you'll find each distributor has a few brands they carry and another distributor may carry other brands. they will usually sell to the public and they can order a range of stuff from catalogs. You just wont get the discounts the trades guys do.
JJet, make sure the repro switches you do buy have a CSA approval if you are getting an electrician to install. There will be no difference in the switch but some fussy electricians may refuse to install them.
phil wrote:I'd just try to avoid that made in china stuff. with a lot of brands ( in general) there was a point where manufacturing went overseas and turned to crap in the process. I see a lot of equipment that was a great brand and then turned to junk but retained the original name for branding purposes. Often the first thing to fail is the cheap Chinese made switches. If you are buying it online "where is it made? " the first question I'd ask.
If you speak with an electrical retailer, You ll find some have better quality stuff. so you can get industrial quality or you can get it cheap. I'm not sure about the repro pushbuttons specifically/ If it is something like a stop button I can get one for like 30 bucks or 200 bucks for industrial quality. You get what you pay for.
be aware if you buy online. there are a lot of these cheap parts that get through with fake CSE or USL markings. Leviton is probably the most common maker here for house type switches. they might be made in mexico too or even in china but I'd trust a part made by a major supplier more than some off brand. If you dig into this look up NEMA and you can learn about the different ratings and things.
some stuff like for example a stop button on an elevator may be required by code to be made up to certain NEMA standards. In machinery I see a lot of failures, broken springs broken plastic bits. the more recent, the less time it lasts for. the stuff rollingout of china is horrible quality.
probably a good bet is to go to an electrical distributor. the same place the electricians go , and talk to them. some of the distributors specialize in the higher end stuff and some try to win customers over with price. you'll find each distributor has a few brands they carry and another distributor may carry other brands. they will usually sell to the public and they can order a range of stuff from catalogs. You just wont get the discounts the trades guys do.
I'd never even heard of NEMA before! Thanks for all the info, Phil! I think $200 for a switch is way above my limit, but I'll do some reading regardless. I agree with you about the "made in China" junk... we've had so many things fall apart and break because of poor quality. No thanks.
Gothichome wrote:JJet, make sure the repro switches you do buy have a CSA approval if you are getting an electrician to install. There will be no difference in the switch but some fussy electricians may refuse to install them.
Thanks Gothic! It will just be me and my dad installing them so I think it'll be fine. My dad has some electrical experience, and I'm hoping to learn a thing or two (and not get a perm in the process! )
repro push button switches aren't very common so for info on the specific brands others here have used is a good question for the forum. Others may have made this modification.
I dont think there is a high likelihood that you will start a fire or anything so serious, they are in a box, the box is grounded, if the wires touch the box the wire is grounded and blows the breaker. the switch is either open or closed, the only real complexity is on a staircase where you have two switches involved , then you need a different type of switch because it has an extra contact..
there is a huge amount of stuff available online. lots comes from China and Mexico. the kind of failures I often see are the switches themselves breaking because they are made too junky , broken plastic bits, broken springs etc.
I think I'd just say buy from a reputable supplier. cheap parts are frustrating. I fix machinery mostly , not houses. the number one call is because they broke the stop button off. some pull to release , others twist to release.. for industrial type buttons they are usually round fit a round hole and there are two sizes that are common. For your house you want stuff made to fit the electrical boxes, the type where one button turns it on the other turns it off. I have a really old one at home it's porcelain and well made.
switches are rated by the amperage. in a house switch most are 15 amp. If you look for a 20 amp switch in home depot you can find that too. the 20 amp is better quality but you might not find designer rocker switches or a push button , just a toggle type switch. No harm if it is higher amperage, lower than 15 you probably cant' find but if you see a option listed, the 20 amp one has stronger springs better contacts or more insulation. you can actually feel the difference when you click them they are a little heavier. my house was all regular switches , when I upgraded I went all new and used the big rockers.. If I wanted more original another thing I could do is find more of the Bakelite wall plates in dark brown. I have a few. I could make copies with epoxy molds I guess. or brass cover plates.
I'd be tempted to use 20 amp brown colored regular old switches and that would give good reliability and a more solid feel.
if you are ordering a bunch of push buttons make note if any are doing dual switching ( where either switch can turn the light on or off) because the switches are different.
the brass ones and fancy push buttons are neat and unusual...
in around the house you'll usually be switching 110 perhaps 220 on occasion. switches made to handle 480 or 600 volts or something need to be rated for that. If I find a broken toggle switch and go look for a new one I make sure the amperage rating and the voltage rating both meet or exceed the original. usually industrial machines use a control voltage of 24 volts for a lot of things, this prevents most of the wiring from needing super heavy insulation or heavy wire. normally there is a transformer that makes 24VDC the switch controls that then it runs to a relay the relay is puled in by the 24volts and that closes higher voltage or higher amperage contacts. there is variation some use a flat panel membrane switch like the ones on your microwave. they might control 5 volts on a PCB board. some stuff in machinery is 110 that's common too.
so because of the circuitry that switch is only controlling 24 volts and may not need a heavy current or high voltage rating so the makers go cheap trying to save money next thing the machine is broken the switch is broken everyone is in a panic because the maker got cheap 1 dollar made in china junk switches at a discount price. other times the ones on machinery are super high industrial quality and last a very long time under abusive conditions..
in Europe they are on 220 volts so their switches will have a higher voltage rating.
Its not a place I'd skimp, If you ever did have an electrical issue or a fire then you wouldn't want the insurance company to make that into an issue. also if you are doing permit work where there will be an inspection the inspector will see oh look a weird push button switch and look for the rating CSA or UL etc. They can fail you because a lamp is missing a sticker and for fussy things, some are fussy. If you are getting inspected I'd keep it normal, let the electrician switch them out later and call that maintenance perhaps? electricians try to do everything properly so they wont like breaking rules. If an inspector catches a no no then he might be harder on the electricians other inspections. They dont want to be responsible for breaking codes to save money, or liable.
Gothichome wrote:JJet, make sure the repro switches you do buy have a CSA approval if you are getting an electrician to install. There will be no difference in the switch but some fussy electricians may refuse to install them.
Thanks Gothic! It will just be me and my dad installing them so I think it'll be fine. My dad has some electrical experience, and I'm hoping to learn a thing or two (and not get a perm in the process! )
You won't get a perm, but you might get a tickle or two. Make sure you turn off the the breaker or fuse for *all* the circuits that are in the junction boxes you are working in.
In my first house (built in 1949) there was a kitchen outlet that unbeknownst to me had two circuits in it.
phil wrote:I'd just try to avoid that made in china stuff. with a lot of brands ( in general) there was a point where manufacturing went overseas and turned to crap in the process. I see a lot of equipment that was a great brand and then turned to junk but retained the original name for branding purposes. Often the first thing to fail is the cheap Chinese made switches. If you are buying it online "where is it made? " the first question I'd ask.
If you speak with an electrical retailer, You ll find some have better quality stuff. so you can get industrial quality or you can get it cheap. I'm not sure about the repro pushbuttons specifically/ If it is something like a stop button I can get one for like 30 bucks or 200 bucks for industrial quality. You get what you pay for.
be aware if you buy online. there are a lot of these cheap parts that get through with fake CSE or USL markings. Leviton is probably the most common maker here for house type switches. they might be made in mexico too or even in china but I'd trust a part made by a major supplier more than some off brand. If you dig into this look up NEMA and you can learn about the different ratings and things.
some stuff like for example a stop button on an elevator may be required by code to be made up to certain NEMA standards. In machinery I see a lot of failures, broken springs broken plastic bits. the more recent, the less time it lasts for. the stuff rollingout of china is horrible quality.
probably a good bet is to go to an electrical distributor. the same place the electricians go , and talk to them. some of the distributors specialize in the higher end stuff and some try to win customers over with price. you'll find each distributor has a few brands they carry and another distributor may carry other brands. they will usually sell to the public and they can order a range of stuff from catalogs. You just wont get the discounts the trades guys do.
I'd never even heard of NEMA before! Thanks for all the info, Phil! I think $200 for a switch is way above my limit, but I'll do some reading regardless. I agree with you about the "made in China" junk... we've had so many things fall apart and break because of poor quality. No thanks.
Keep in mind that you're working with residential switches and outlets.
Phil's information is interesting, but often takes tangents into industrial settings which don't apply to residential situations...
JacquieJet wrote:Where is a good place to get quality switches?
Jacquie, I'm a little late but I just came across an old invoice so am providing contact information in case it's useful to you. As it turns out, I did not buy from HoAH; I bought my switches and plates from Classic Accents, Inc. in Southgate Michigan. Here is a link to their site. My switches haven't been in that long so I can't vouch for their durability but the company seems to be proud of their quality.
Thank you, everyone! Manalto, I appreciate the info! Thank you for checking into that!
Mjt, great advice. We’ve had a couple surprises about what is wired to where (seems to have been updated professionally, but not labelled super clearly). I’ll shut everything down first. Thanks for that!
Phil, thanks for all that info. Some was “above my pay grade”, but I appreciate the reference points!
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