Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

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Lily left the valley
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Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by Lily left the valley »

When the side door water leak needed tending, I found the following under the fake wood vinyl planks:
Image Image

You can see that lovely lino that is a bit worse for wear closer to the door (we suspect the PO tried to rip it up before putting down the vinyl), however, you can also see where a detail strip was pulled up, meaning the lino was actually a linoleum carpet where different colors are used to make a, well, rug. Like so:
Image Image

My Floor Manager has not yet given a green light to further remove vinyl in the dining room so I can see exactly what shape the overall carpet is in, and honestly, we never had discussed such a warm red as a color for that room--let alone a huge swath of floor in that room. Still, it's lovely with the speckles and mottling. :D

So aside from sending off one of the chips I found for testing, if it comes back clear of scary cancer elements, I have found myself wondering if we can restore it or even part of it. We had originally thought to make a mini mud area just inside that door, so the bits that are damaged so far wouldn't be as big an issue anyhoo.

Related to this is the same lino is both in the hallway heading towards the back bedroom we use as an office, and is also in the kitchen. So far, what vinyl planks I've pulled from the kitchen shows no such detail as seen in that picture, although I haven't gotten very far despite having a green for vinyl removal in that room, because there's only so many hours in a day week month. Again, that color (although it matches the countertops in the kitchen) was never in our plans. I'm less inclined to keep it in the kitchen which might mean we could perhaps use some of what's in there for repairs elsewhere. (And I might be able to do something crafty with the matching counter top surfaces as far as furnishings for the dining as well.)

So, I guess I'm wondering if folks think it's worth spending time researching lino carpets this summer, and I'd also like to hear from anyone who may have experience or knowledge of same. If we're going to at least do the mud area, I want that done before winter kicks in gear. Then I can spend the rest of the winter fussing with the rest of the floor.

Your :twocents-twocents:, please.
--Proud member of the Industrious Cheapskate Club
--Currently pondering ways to encourage thoughtful restovation and discourage mindless renovation.

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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by Lily left the valley »

And we have at least one answer...the detail is a honeyed gold--or at least it is in the kitchen.

Image

You can see where the now missing radiator melted and warped the lino rug. It also seems possible that either the rad leaked as well, or the water damage I noticed under the sink was the source of the discoloration. This is not the only room in the house that shows signs of a flooded boiler--at least two rooms have warped or replaced wood.

I had to stop my excavation here so far, and am wondering if it's worth trying to pull up more for the short term if most of the lino is this damaged. I did not have time to attempt a quick scrub at the whitish film on top of the lino. I don't know if it will come off or is permanent damage yet.

The most interesting thing is the padding under the vinyl had no adhesive to stick it to the lino. No wonder the floor has so much movement when you walk on it. Yet, good because...less hassle to try to salvage repair pieces? :shifty:

At the top centerish, you can see the black mastic on the original wood floor. It was so overheated, I could easily scrape it with a putty knife right into dust. Again, this might only be the case where the steam caused damage.

But...having removed this much allowed me to see the ghost in the cabinetry flooring. Instantly, I knew where the odd trim I had found belonged, but no longer fit due to the additional layer of padding and vinyl.
Image
The trim still has nails on the back, so the placement is approximate, but darn tootin' it goes there. It's the bottom trim for the cabinet doors to rest against. So obvious to me now...I really felt like a dolt when the :icon-idea: turned on in my head.

The non masticated wood you see inside the cabinet is the original wood floor. The top wood runs N-S. The T&G subfloor (with wider boards) runs E-W.

So it looks like we might be able to salvage some of this for lino repair in the dining room.

In case anyone is curious, the red painted edge on the shelf in that cabinet was done to all the edges of the shelves. The other lino piece you see on top of the shelf is one of the patterns that is found all over the house in bits.
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Willa
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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by Willa »

Jane Powell's "Linoleum" is really the go-to book for this type of question. It's a nice coffee table book, and the last time I checked you can buy a used or remainder copy for under $10.00.

Linoleum rugs are not actually linoleum, however. Linoleum = ground cork + pigment + linseed oil on a woven jute backing.

What lino rugs are made of can be sort of a hodge-podge, esp. pre-vinyl flooring era. They are typically not applied with adhesive (good). However they lack the depth and resiliency of linoleum (not so good). With linoleum, or even VC(Vinyl Composition) Tiles, the pigment is blended as part of the flooring and even in areas that get heavy wear the colors can't be worn off. Carpet "linoleum" has the pattern printed on the surface. In my encounters with it, unless it has been in a room that was seldom used, there will be damage and wear. I think it was a "cheap and cheerful" product that was really popular, but did have a finite lifespan, even with proper care.

The two retro reference pics you show illustrate VCTiles (retro kitchen) and what may be linoleum with their pre-made contrast strips (the decorative green band). Linoleum is still manufactured by Armstrong (Marmoleum) and Congoleum ? It's a green product, and comes in loads of colors. BUT - application is tricky and should be done by experienced professionals, not DIY. It is also somewhat pricey - though it can last for decades.

From looking at your house pic, that might be carpet linoleum - though they usually had fancy patterns on them. You might have actual linoleum there - that would match your countertops ! Contrasting strips were very popular. I think they get sort of melted in with a special tool ?

Retro Renovation has a bunch of articles on vintage flooring materials

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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by Olson185 »

I think this isn't a linoleum *rug* (which isn't wall-to-wall) but linoleum flooring ("flooring" implying it *is* wall-to-wall).

I suspect the whiteness is a wax build-up and searched the internet to double-check. In that search I found:
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/restore-shine-linoleum-flooring-8709.html. I'd do a small (6"x6") spot to see if this works.

Regardless of what the test results indicate (re: carcinogenic mat'l), if you don't attempt to re-establish this as your flooring, I'd look for a section that best documents what the pattern(s) included and picture/poster frame it as a decorative wall hanging (with or without coat hooks/pegs)...something I generally do with discovered wallpaper; with a picture of the room in which it's found.

[Edit: Coincidentally, an HGTV video link appeared in my fb feed and one of three projects is for a "Custom Art Peg Rail" like the idea I mentioned above. http://www.hgtv.com/design/rooms/living-and-dining-rooms/smart-chic-living-rooms-videos ]
Last edited by Olson185 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by Lily left the valley »

Willa, that is an amazing amount of knowledge you have. I will try to see if I can get that book at our library. Before we lost Beebe the first time, I had another of her books I was reading (one of the bungalow specific ones), but then abandoned reading it and returned it because I was sad we had lost a bungalow. [Little did she know...]

Retro Renovation was where I first started learning about linoleum rugs. I sort of knew about lino because some houses in my wider family net still had some, although no one had anything that was fancy. I've also read her posts about what's still available or newly remade with lino and counter tops. I think Congoleum still too. Or at least they were when I last caught one of her posts about them. I know sometimes I don't go there for weeks, and then suddenly something isn't available anymore. Okies, I just checked, and they have VCT advertised on their site, so yes. It's made with 80% limestone! I would never have guessed that.

Speaking of, I do sort of recall the idea of the pigment staying true. There's a counter top type like that as well, if I recall. Something about how they layered the print paper in the hardened coating.

Yes, the melting makes sense to me, as it would have a more resilient edge so less concern that the quality would fail. With some of the plastics work I've done before, we did plastic welds, so I don't think the idea of doing something like that with these is much different (other than chemically). (Hopefully less of a headache generator, though! I don't miss that smell at all even through a respirator.)

Yes, most I've seen are high contrast--often complementary colors too. Sometimes they would do as is with ours where the gold pulls out marbling in that shade from the red.

Somehow I missed that the rugs were premade that way. I always thought they were pieced, and as with the first retro image, often took up a smaller area so they "looked" like a rug on the floor. Now, some rooms do have rugs that might as well be wall to wall, so I never thought to make the distinction. It does make sense, though, because I did wonder with the more delicate details how they stayed together long term and the edges didn't get frayed or caught on heel corners.

Before I found out about the lino/VCT that was already on our floor, I was thinking of going with cork from Globus. It was to be my one kitchen splurge. I still want that, but feel odd covering the original wood floor with it at the same time. It might be that the mastic has seeped into the wood, especially where there was steam/boiling water overflow, but we won't know until I keep peeling back the layers. I do have to say, although I despise the fake wood vinyl for so many reasons, I have been a bit sad about ripping out something not even in the house a year (and no hope of preserving it because it's cheap and brittle and cracks at the slightest pressure when removed) and it's going straight to a dump. :-( I hate waste like that.

There could be more of a pattern, especially in the dining room, and we just haven't uncovered it yet. I know Sean really made an exception to let me lift the kitchen flooring, and I'll try Olsen's idea when I can to see what that effort yeilds. I have to be careful not to start too much over what is sane. Today was a blizzard I know I shouldn't make a habit, because it will lead to mistakes later. I also worried he would fuss about how bad the kitchen floor would look if that white was permanent. One day at a time with that, I guess.

Olson185 As I mentioned with Willa, I always thought lino rugs were a patch within a large sheet. Some I had seen examples of did have an outer border as well. Yet I understand your delineation and why. The trouble with older terms is when you try to search for them now, modern appropriation starts chipping away at what you've learned or fills blanks that aren't really there, and then the silly blanket terms start flying all too easily. (This reminds me of what EC said about vintage/antique.)

I've been struck with sort of parsing out what's accurate lately thanks to the older house books I've been reading (as in, written long ago, not just about older houses). The Handyman book from the 60s has been very illuminating both in making me think about how advertising might have driven some things even then, but also because of the gaps and what gets lost because it was considered too "everyday" to need to be remembered. When we rented our first studio (the old Mill office), I had bought a Home Despot 1-2-3 book that I still have, and it amazes me how differently things are approached now when I compare just those two books.

Thank you very much for the tip about the wax. I had read about waxing on several surfaces over time, but have never first hand waxed a floor, so it's a big hole in my experience base. (Also one of my concerns about getting a cork floor...I like the idea of waxing it, but also worry I'll be sorry later I went that route.)

You're another District folk who is really good at already knowing and also knowing where to find useful info. I am so grateful to be in such good company.

Is it possible that the original lino rugs were related to oilcloth rugs maybe? Not sure why my brain is making that connection right now, but it is. I had looked into oilcloths a bit when we though we'd be buying the Carpenter Gothic.

From what I've been able to glean so far, at least the red is in the hall, dining and kitchen. (Possibly the downstairs bath--but I honestly don't recall now from all the many layers I keep finding there.) If I can manage, I may do a nod to it in the kitchen, but if we do manage to restore the dining, we might not have enough leftover from patching repairs together. I say this because there are some spots that feel like they have "missing spots" in the dining room. I was wondering if perhaps before someone had tried to remove the lino in there and, as near the doorway I was working on, chipped away but never removed it all. It could just be air since the underlay for the fake wood vinyl has no glue, but only time will tell either way. One concern is the radiator in the dining room. Even if it doesn't overflow, the heat might still damage (if it hasn't already) the flooring there as happened in the kitchen. Things to ponder...

And now I am really past when I said I would be heading off to bed. Good thing Sean's already crashed out--he'd be scolding me. :lol:
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Willa
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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by Willa »

Linoleum (the book) taught me 95% , plus a lino block printing class, and a floor-layer ex-boyfriend.

Personally I have a soft spot for linoleum rugs, as they are such a practical and afforable but kitschy idea. When did accessible design get so boring ?

The thing with the layered paper plus a hard coating = formica manufacture process I think ? I just ordered a copy of the sure-to-be-riveting "Formica" (the book) so I will know more after I've read that. You know I'm a barrel of laughs at parties !

Here's some typical "carpets". You can see they are very much laid out like fancy area rugs, with multicolor complex patterns. I would much rather sweep and scrub one of those v.s. dragging a larger area rug out to beat it, however often they did that.

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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by phil »

that old jute backed flooring was so nice and durable and it wasn't plastic. I bet you could silk screen over it. Ill get a pic of my cork flooring in the living room and they painted flowers all over it. It wasn't very intricate but they at least added some of their own design. Those samples Willa posted are so beautiful!

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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by Lily left the valley »

So I showed Sean the larger section by pulling it back up in the kitchen today, and surprisingly, he does like it as well. The plan for today is that I will remove the fake wood vinyl in the kitchen only. Then we'll see how we feel about the colors in a month or so before we decide if eventually we'll replace it with cork or keep it and repair what we can. I still have that cheap 1" threshold I pulled from the side door area, so I can use that to prevent the trip hazard between for the short term.

In all honestly, because the underlay for the vinyl wasn't glued down, it's just finding the seam and pulling, with no residue to deal with after. So maybe I might just keep going and do the dining/hall too, depending. We still have a lot of boxes in the dining I'd have to shuffle around...so maybe not. Time will tell.

Olson185, I did a small patch test today on that discolored area. First I wiped surface smudge off with just water. Then I lightly sprinkled baking soda and then sprayed 2:1 water/vinegar on top, let it sit for a round of "happy birthday" and wiped it. Some spots needed a bit of encouraging, but it looks AMAZING. I don't use ammonia, and that's some pretty strong stuff anyhoo, so I figured I should just try what was on hand--and apparently it was enough, even diluted. When I lift the rest of the kitchen floor later, I'll do a larger area so you can see the before/after in a picture I'll post. I'm debating if I should start a project post separate from this discussion about lino, VCT and lino rugs, though. If I do that, I'll just post a link over from here to make it easier for folks to find.

Willa wrote: You know I'm a barrel of laughs at parties !
You can come to a party at our house ANY TIME. We thrive on and thrill at that sort of company. ;-)

The only lino block I've done was in Girl Scouts way back when, and we didn't explore the background of such. I will definitely look that book up when time allows.

I think because so many folks assume they'll resell their house, safe boring stuff rules the day. From a business perspective, there is less risk with being stuck with anything more interesting that soon has a "dated" look to it if the pattern doesn't become popular.

The examples you posted are wonderful! I'm not crazy about the flower choice in the corner bits, but the rest of that first "rug" I adore.

Yep, much easier to clean. I actually have an old fashioned carpet beater--the woven kind--and use it on the few we have.

phil wrote:that old jute backed flooring was so nice and durable and it wasn't plastic. I bet you could silk screen over it. Ill get a pic of my cork flooring in the living room and they painted flowers all over it. It wasn't very intricate but they at least added some of their own design. Those samples Willa posted are so beautiful!
I look forward to seeing those photos, Phil. I wonder, if the cork has already been sealed though, would that hurt the chance of the silk screen soaking in well to the pores (cells?) of the wood? I guess it might depend on what it was sealed with in the past.
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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by phil »

Lily left the valley wrote: So maybe I might just keep going and do the dining/hall too, depending. We still have a lot of boxes in the dining I'd have to shuffle around...so maybe not. Time will tell.


You know you are a devoted old house lover when you are tearing the floors up with fresh moving in boxes surrounding you ;-)

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Re: Linoleum rug/repair--opinions, please

Post by phil »

Lily left the valley wrote:
phil wrote:that old jute backed flooring was so nice and durable and it wasn't plastic. I bet you could silk screen over it. Ill get a pic of my cork flooring in the living room and they painted flowers all over it. It wasn't very intricate but they at least added some of their own design. Those samples Willa posted are so beautiful!
I look forward to seeing those photos, Phil. I wonder, if the cork has already been sealed though, would that hurt the chance of the silk screen soaking in well to the pores (cells?) of the wood? I guess it might depend on what it was sealed with in the past.


yea I dont' know if mine is silk screened. I think they just got a bit artful with a brush. I will take pictures. I either have to save the cork or I can have the wood floor and I think the wood floor is going to win but I plan to remove the carpets and at least have a look at it. If I am to sand the floors I need to do that before I can put the baseboards back and ill need to remove the cork.
I just thought I'd get through some of the dirty bits like ripping out the fireplace, stripping window trim, then the carpet and all the reno debris can go to the dump.

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