what are the best outdoor paints of today?

[phil]

my house has old siding, maybe original. it was bare wood , and then yellow maybe 20 years ago and then orange maybe 10 years ago. the orange has faded to , a sort of milky white orange and I'd like to brighten it up a bit. the blood red trim can stay that color. The trim in the windows is a sort of a weird pinkish beige but in place it doesn't' look that bad I guess. I might go slightly more beige and less pink.
I cant' afford painters, and any info I get from paint dealers is really no more than self promotion of their own products and it would be great to get feedback on what people have used in the last 5 or 10 years and what they liked or didn't.

Gibson was suggesting Acrylic stains, Sherwin Williams Woodscapes or Benjamin Moore Arborcoat.

the attached shows the worst side, the north side.
It probably needs some pressure washing and primer first? would I have to primer the whole house?

others here have suggested the opaque stains. Perhaps that' s what it is as it isn't shiny or anything. some of the shingles have curled and need replacing and most have the circular saw marks and some roughness. I dont' mind that it's just character but the surface isn't so easy to scrape.

So while I'm not ready to paint yet I'd like to choose my paint colors and the paint type, then get a little of each to get started in the worst spots. I'm hoping I can just buy a little to get going and that they'd be able to get the color pretty close when I go to get more. I might be able to just do one side per year to make the whole project a little less stressful than trying to tackle the whole house myself over the summer.

I thought maybe I could wash one side with TSP and then pressure wash to get what I can of the green slime , and wait a month or so , then scrape what I can and blopentine? then primer or just go to acrylic stain?

on the roof I have tried the "moss out" stuff. it's actually to spray on the lawn but a few years back I sprayed my shingles, then waited a month and when the moss died and turned black and let go. Then got the dead stuff off with a hose.
I have heard this same moss out also kills the green slime so maybe I could use that as a cleaner on the siding as well?

I just thought I'd open the thread and see what products others liked. I'm primarily interested in what you have used that seems to have stood up for more than 5 years , rather than what was recently used and any comments on the best methods for prep work on shingles.

I also attached a shot of the front just after using the Bohme stuff on my stairs. it's been two winters now and probably needs another coat but at least it isn't' flaking or coming off. you can also see how the shingles on the corner need some work.

Phil

[SkipW]

Our house was coated with a flat Ben Moore stain in Navajo White when we bought it. It had been done approximately 15 years before and it looked like crap. The parts that the POs had built/reshingled looked better than the old shingles but that is to be expected.

I do not pressure wash wood siding so none of that here. I did use a mildewcide (Concrobium) to hit the North facing sides that had any mildew or gunk. I did wash the entire house as we went with a TSP solution but everything was scraped and sanded by hand. We really did not go crazy on the really bad stuff because I knew I was going to reshingle most if not all of it. So we were 'scraping to resistance' and sanding rough edges, etc. The decent stuff was sanded to a cleaner state.

Everything got 2 (or 3 depending on facing side and condition) of Sherwin Williams Duration. We used Satin as opposed to flat because the flat (here anyway) tends to hold moisture and dirt better.

The only places I have touched up since we did the project are two fascias and two window sills, both of which were in poor condition when we did the job.

People who visit think we just painted and we painted 10 years ago. So I would definitely recommend Duration.

[GibsonGM]

If your house doesn't have 1,000 layers of (suspect) paint, Duration is a good choice on claps and trim. Remember, it is a coating, so it will create a 'plastic layer' over anything you apply it to. Duration is not the best choice for cedar shakes...NO paint is, as the oils cedar contains don't usually play well. Sometimes you get lucky, perhaps the cedar weathered ok and there is less oil content, and you encounter no problems with lifting...good deal. Or maybe those shakes are NOT cedar (?) I don't know any painters that will apply it to shakes, at any rate, myself included. Your call.

Satin is ok; flat is traditional where I am, but you guys have decorative houses, so a touch of sheen wouldn't be out of place and sure will be easier to keep clean.

A stain will penetrate where it can, and create less of a layer for later spalling. This is now the Nat'l Park Service standard for restoration. Stains wear out (so can 'look like crap') and chalk when they age, yup. Paint is now a 6 to 12 yr. undertaking, according to the manufacturers. Stains are a better choice where you have many layers of paint, some areas of which are failing/separating, as they will not build up...when the project is scraped during successive paint jobs, there is less and less old paint there to peel later (less prep; lower cost). After many paint cycles, the building will "virtually" stop peeling. The idea these days is to put LESS stuff on a structure. Too many paint layers separate and allow moisture to become trapped between them and the substrate. That's why you sometimes find mildew UNDER paint when you scrape it. The horror....

I'd pressure wash that, Phil. Wet...TSP/water/brush/flush.... Don't try to dig in and remove PAINT, tho...just the mildewy, dirty stuff, from a small distance (say 12" to 18", green tip on the sprayer). A spot-treat and flush with concrobium or some other product (moss....) would be great. No bleach - it does nothing on wood. When dry, the usual light scraping, hand sanding where needed.

I'd allow to dry about a week in nice weather (you can use a moisture probe for certainty), do whatever scrape/sand work needed, and apply 2 coats of a solid color stain, out of direct sun. Stain is self-priming. 1 coat won't give you the color depth that I KNOW you're looking for I will often 'spray the cracks' first (Wagner power painter is good for that) to be sure they're coated.

The door jambs look sad but not punky - they should come back pretty well with a scrape & sand. I like to prime the trim, hit it with a satin paint such as Regal (or Duration).

I understand the desire to pre-prime, to do blotene etc...but if you're going to use modern products, you really don't need to, and may affect the topcoat. That style of painting is "old" now. Not "old school", as oil priming and then applying duration does nothing....spot priming with Duration (or Arborcoat) and then applying a full coat is the same thing.

I'd consider blotene for an important, original detail that is dry, cracked, unhealthy..."Porked", and in need of stabilization...that most people would simply replace, but we want to try to save. I'd apply it to condition the wood, and wait a GOOD while before filling, sanding, top coating.....not for siding or basic trim. If the paint layer on those surfaces is prepped well, and coated properly, you are good to go. Honest. When you see an old victorian restored in the town center, turned into a restaurant or something - this is what they are doing. It is still classed as restoration.

Other than for details/delicate things, that road really is best followed all the way if you're going to start down it...blotene...oil prime...oil topcoat (if you can find one, in the VOC-free era we live in). In my 15 years of working on old homes, returning to see how they fare....the route I just proposed is the best one. The 'old timers' only used the products that would kill them because that's all they HAD. Today, those 80 yr. old guys are using Duration/Arborcoat and their friends, LOL!

[phil]

Thank You Gibson, I really appreciate all the detail in your reply, it will help. as of the moment I have my living room insulated, and re drywalled. I took out the interior trim and while it's a reno zone Im scraping most of the paint off the windows and trim. Ill sand the sills and window frames and then after some 70's tile removal I can pull out the carpets and see if the floor is saveable as is or if it needs sanding or maybe some boards replaced.
I freed up the inner sashes, the outer ones are still stuck by paint.
I think it might be easier to remove the outer sashes from the outside. I was wondering how they come out , if the parting strip is in a groove or just nailed flush. it appears as a 1/2" x 1/2" strip. I was trying to free that but I think it's in a groove and then I should maybe just take the outer trim off to get the upper sashes free. as I am going into this I will have some outside work to do but I am trying to keep the work inside moving forward. I can probably just scrape and blopentine what I want around the windows and it would be good to perhaps look at some of the stuff that is cracking. If I can save some parts like the fascia boards that would be really good. i don't really mind if it means making the project look a little "in process" if it gives the blopentine a chance to soak in and do it's thing it isn't a race against time. It's more about the best sequence for me, I can't really go at any record breaking speeds.

It's probably best I start with the eves and then work downward , or else Ill drip all over what's below. so I guess the top down approach that I am using on the inside is probably not a bad way to approach the outside as well. Perhaps Fascia boards and the open rafter tails etc then window trim , then siding. If I can avoid primer and just go to the newer products that would be fine if it sticks. I'm a little over 50 now and I'd like to avoid doing this again in my 60's if I am able to but that may be determined by the products I choose now and Ill have to accept that I might not be able to do it again in 10 years, or I may be selling then. The prices have been climbing so fast the alternative may be to sell pay off the mortgage and flock out of town to a less pricey area leaving some cash for retirement. Ive got ten years to decide that. For now Ill keep the blinders on and just focus on fixing up what I have.
It sounds funny but I have been a bit afraid of painting it because it may affect the assessment and it's best it stays low as long as I own it as the taxes follow the assessment. If I was to sell it then it may be best to have new paint then. Realistically I think have to spread this project out just to make it happen while I am working and without help it may take me more than a year to tackle the outside of the whole house. If I can make just a little progress inthe right direction this year I will be happy.

I asked at Ben Moore if I can still get oil base and he said I can but we didn't' elaborate so maybe I need to find out more detail about what I can or can't get. I'm all for using the stinky stuff that lasts so as to speak, but I guess that might be decided for me based on availability. For now I'd like to make my paint choice and crawl forward slowly. So I could do some experiments with touch ups, trim maybe some fascia boards, window sills , where the paint is cracked and open. My handrails and gutters shouldn't be white, and maybe I could fix a few shakes this year and maybe I can plan to do more on the outside the following year. that might include renting or building some scaffolding that can move around the perimeter as I go.

[GibsonGM]

Hi Phil,

NO way to get that top sash out from inside?? Boy, I'd HATE the thought of removing ext. trim/casing...for fear of destroying some siding and whatnot! I'd prefer to ruin the parting strip inside and make a new one if I had to. I'd do ANYTHING to get it out from inside - it's how it went in... That's just me...could have someone knock on it from outside with a rubber mallet on a piece of wood, of course...probably need to run a 5 in 1 tool around out there...

Yup, soffits/eaves/rafter tails first. I do them completely before I get into the body, around the entire house. I will often do the corner boards too, then touch them up when the body is done. Same with window trim - maybe do 1 coat first, then a final coat off the ladder with a stabilizer at the end. I find it easier to make a nice transition from siding/shakes along the corner boards if the corners are done first! Then you get that nice return on the edge! Just have to use some care, or touch up after.

The only way to know if your job will last is to do it and see You could test some places... How long a stain, or paint like Duration will last is based on how weathered the substrate is. Looks like your is in good shape, just some bare stuff down low! That is a great sign. I think you'll be ok either way, as the existing stuff is doing well. It is when you have silvered, weathered, wood that you get trouble...the wood fibers become like 'a bundle of straw', and it is VERY hard to make products stay for long periods. Sanding helps, but not entirely. Then there are choices, such as replacement of some shakes etc., or go into heroics, blopentene...but you don't seem to be facing that. I think you have every right to expect 10+ yrs...honestly, most people wait longer before they call me

I used to worry about assessment, too, but then - hey, whatever. They're GOING to mark you up like you have paint on wooden siding anyway! I had that crappy asbestos on here, couldn't take it anymore and tore it all off. I won't let the assessor on my property, so he'll have to guess if he wants to do it again He mistakenly told me that NOBODY that had this house had ever let him in, lol....nor will I....

This is rural maine, after all!

[phil]

your surprise that I wasn't easily able pull the parting beads out led me to believe this is the way they should come out so maybe I just need to try harder. maybe I can screw something onto it to pry on. if it's set in a grove it should pull out. Everything was really painted in good so I took to heat gunning what I could on the inside and then just carefully moved things about until I managed to get all the paint to crack enough that they would come free. Of course once things move it's easier to access some spots.
By looking at them it doesn't seem as if I'd need to play with the exterior casings. the beads that hold the inner windows are simple , Just strips about 3/16 x 1 " or so. the corner facing the inside of the room has a 1/4" roundover. I think I can cut new strips faster than scraping the old ones off but maybe they will match better if I use the originals. I'm undecided on that. . it looks like the outside beads are similar if not the same dimension so maybe I could just cut new ones and be done with it? it isn't much wood and they have paint 3 sides. My aim for now is to get rid of most of the mess and free them. Later with the living room in use I can still take the sashes out to do finer work.

I'm thinking of either using permanently installed outer storms that will tip out at the bottom or maybe I could cut those inner beads with a step in them to accept inner storms that could either drop in or hinge . i could cut the beads sort of in the shape of a door stop. so they'd have something to meet when they swing in. and mak esome simple lightweight interior window frames with mortice and tennon corners. It's for the traffic noise, the house is very noisy and I'm trying to fix that. I noticed another house nearby that had sort of interior storms that work like a bifold door, that might be ok. on the side of the house thay are casements , they swing out so the storms would have to be on the inside unless I change the way they open. It's probably not practical to make those swing inwards.
I'm fine with cutting what I want but I need a plan and right now I'm trying to sort that out. Ive got a pile of nice knot free fir 2x4's to work from, and some recycled old interior trim and stuff.
the reason for disassembling the interior walls and using soundproof drywal was noise. it helped but the windows are very thin wavy glass and I don't want to change them more than needed visually.

silly question but paint and stain. what is the difference technically? is paint thought to have a shiny surface but stain is opaque and dull? or is it the thickness of the stuff? paint can flake and come off in sheets if it is put on thick but perhaps stain has less substance. I'm not sure if what is on there is paint or stain but it isn't thick or really flaking super badly for the most part. it was never shiny. I guess it's stain. I'm fine if it's flat and not shiny so long as it protects the wood from the sun and doesn't peel or fall off and create a disaster later . One reason I thought I'd go to a bit darker color of orange but to keep basically the same shade is in case it flecks, it looks bad if it's a huge contrast between layers. The stairs look loud in the pic but they toned back pretty quickly after that.
It's a funny color. Not many orange houses but I have grown to sort of like it and feel it fits in as a historic color not that I know much about that. blue might be more marketable but also more common.

What I do with the paint might not affect assessment so much, it's hard to tell. I thought of challenging mine but then decided it might be best just to leave that alone and focus on restoration. They dont' usually go into houses and they would have trouble getting that kind of permission. It's way more about the land value than the house. My house is almost all land value and maybe my painting efforts wont' change it so much. It's part of maintenance and I mostly want to look after the siding and shakes and not need to replace too much. They put I think 3/8 ply and new shingles maybe 18 years or so ago so it's probably OK to just wait until I need to and do another layer. unless I have issues I can probably delay that a little.

[GibsonGM]

They have to come out, phil, LOL! I'd have an assistant bang on a board placed across the sash, outside. Tap L, tap R, back & forth. Try to get it to cock to one side. Maybe a VERY close inspection is needed, to be sure they didn't screw the things in?? They SHOULD come out! Even mine do, with work, and they are single hung...

Stain is thinner than paint, and a different formula altogether. Does not layer, it penetrates. Beyond that, I really don't know the chemistry. Yup, it'll be nearly flat, but not ALL the way.

Here, they try to raise the assessment more on what you did inside...granite counters, etc, LOL...land is like one formula they use to arrive at a value...per acre....

[Gothichome]

Phill, the parting beads will come out with some effort. On all of Gothichomes second floor windows so far, the top sashs have been painted shut, or should I say glued in place with paint. I no longer attempt to remove the beads in one piece. What works for me is cutting the bead at the top of the lower sash as deep as I can with an Olfa blade, and then prying out the top half of the bead. Raise the lower sash and pry the bottom half out. Generally do both beads. The lower sash comes out with no effort, but it gives you clear access to the top sash, using Jades "woman handling" technique and a little patience you can work the top sash free. I will admit, it is not the prettiest way to get the dreads and the sash out, but it works. For all but a couple I was able to use the now two part parting beads during reassembled. As Gibson mentions making new beads is easy.

[phil]

Ok I opened up one window and tugged a bit more at the parting bead. Yes it is set into a slot and nailed in , it will come out. I just need to make up something temporary to fill the window hole so I can untie my lower sash ropes and work on it but I moved it enough to know it'll come, it just needs enticing ! Thanks for all the help!

I sanded the sills a bit with a belt sander. I can do the same to the window frame once it doesn't have all that stuff in the way. I can probably cut a new parting bead since mine is a bit rough just from shrinkage. I was wondering about what clearances I want there. I assume side to side they dont fit too tight that's ok, but I don't want them rattly nor do I wan them too tight to move. It needs a "running clearance". maybe resurfacing the edges of the sashes will help and I could look for the bronze springy stuff or something like that. or make up for the "meat" I loose with an added strip.

I dont' know if I can get the bronze stuff locally or if I have to mail order it. for a moment I thought hey can I use a piece of a tape measure for this and just nail one edge? that would make the opposite edge want to spring in towards the sash. you can even get the 1" tape measures.. it's cheap but I'm not sure if it would work or maybe just get stuck in there somehow.

I have a roll of this UHMW tape. it's neat stuff. it's black and it has sticky back one side and the other side is super slippery. it's probably not the thing to use for that either but it's a way of making some things slide easily. the other drawback is it is super pricey

here's something like it from 3M , 240 bucks for 36 yards. wow!
but if you stick this stuff on things like drawer guides it has neat properties. even with a lot of weight on it it can make stuff slide like it's on ball bearings.

https://www.uline.ca/Product/Detail/S-1 ... lsrc=aw.ds
Phil

[GibsonGM]

Glad it came out finally, Phil! They always do in the end, one way or the other. I remember my first time; I destroyed the thing, left 1/2 of it in the rabbet, LOL! Had to chisel it out.

For a new one, I'd just measure the width of the rabbet and cut to that size. Then I sand them to fit. Snug, but reasonable to remove. When it goes into the slot, any slop is taken up because it is usually sort of 'deep'. I have yet to have an inner sash rattle due to a parting bead...you'll get it, just mess around. Then prime it, pop it in when dry.

I don't use bronze, so can't comment on it. As mentioned, I just use interior panels in winter, and in summer the windows 'do their own thing'. I have sash stays, so I open my storms and inner sash for good weather but don't take the storms off...we get frequent violent rain and they are VERY helpful for that! Otherwise it would blow right inside. It also makes kind of a neat look.

Nice call on the tape! That looks interesting. I have 2 drawers that could use that!