Leveling Post and Beam House

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Seabornman
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Leveling Post and Beam House

Post by Seabornman »

None of the improvements I did to my place this year had anything to do with the house, so now I'm planning for next year. I'm planning a major redo, so I'm thinking now is the time to try and level the house as much as possible. I did not level the last house I renovated and I regretted it: a lot of lost time trying to figure out framing, siding and other things. It appears that from front to back the house is around 4" out of level. Not as much the other direction. This is a timber-frame house ca. 1840. The good thing is the sills I can see seem to be in good shape and the house is very simple in layout: no internal posts. It is sitting on a stone foundation, so the walls are pretty thick.

Has anyone done this kind of work or seen a good reference for how to?

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Nicholas
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Re: Leveling Post and Beam House

Post by Nicholas »

Our wooden crawlspace house was sagging in the middle on one side by about two inches, or what could be called a "smile". I wasn't smiling, but we knew of this and took it on.

Underneath was sinking old rusted screwjacks with beams, leaning original brick piers with bricks stacked on top, wood wedges shoved in other places. I considered doing it myself, as that is what seemed to be done sometime in the past. I actually priced the right jacks and looked at a lot of youtube videos. We also knew we had to do this before window replacement.

I hired the pros, and glad I did. Rebarbed footers, 8 piers, 3 of them adjustable, PT sill plate, solid 6x6 inch PT beams and sistered up cross beams, Cost: 7300.

You can see a couple of pics in blog below.
1915 Frame Vernacular Bungalow

"If it ain't leanin' or a little crooked then it ain't got character"
- local resident

The BumbleBee House

Seabornman
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Re: Leveling Post and Beam House

Post by Seabornman »

I have an appointment set up with a good (and expensive) structural repair company. This might be one time I don't go the DIY route, unless the price is outrageous. Read your house blog with interest. Determining the true age of a house can involve a little detective work. Mine is listed as 1852 on the County records, but I can see framing methods that predate that. Unfortunately there are no original windows, doors or trim to see.

phil
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Re: Leveling Post and Beam House

Post by phil »

I think I'd be tempted to hire house movers to lift it , they come equipped with hydraulic cylinders that can lift in unison and lots of blocking to support it. Lifting is one thing, straightening is another. If you straighten it you will crack the walls and need to do repairs but if you just lift and level they might not put as much stress on things.

around me they do it a lot to build suites. typically they lift it way up so they can work more easily and support the house on big beams, then they pour a new foundation , then they sit it back down a foot or two higher than original and then the house has a full height basement so they can build a basement suite. they usually pretty well gut the house in the process and replace the mechanicals, drywall, windows so when done they are pretty much new houses with steep roofs and some old features but they definitely don't worry about loosing the antique details like all the trim doors, etc. I guess as long as they use the same framing it's technically the same house. It's more pricey than a new build. usually they smash the chimney and incorporate the space into the new plan.

I am about 3 inches short of a legal suite and i keep thinking of smashing the floor and underpinning the foundation and leaving the house where it is but it's such a large project. I could probably build a laneway house for not much more.

yesterday I discussed it with the bank. I figure I could build a lane way house for about 100K and then rent that for about 1200 per month and reclaim the 100K in about 6 years or so. It's actually a good investment but the extra debt scares me. I think I'll look into it more and see if I could get a better picture of the costs plus find out more about if I can be allowed to build one. My argument is I want to keep the house looking original and it is an alternative to building on.
the rules are different in different areas and it's a newer trend. I think in some areas they will let you either build a suite or a lane-way house and not both. Having tenants in a separate building is easier for both parties than living on top of them.

I'm also seeing lots of houses moving around. the city wants them preserved but they seem to allow people to move them so if they are in the middle of a 60 foot lot they will often move the house down the street. In one case they are putting three of the old houses on top of a commercial space, or maybe it's apartments underneath.. they move them aside , build what they want and plonk the house back on top. it beats tearing them down.

I remember my dad saying he was lifting a house. Mom was pregnant and helping him dig and this was in the 50's he was at work as a carpenter and the house lifters called to ask if he wanted it straightened. he said sure and arrived home to every wall being cracked and he had a lot of finishing to do. He was kind of sorry he hadn't said just "lift it and split the difference but don't' straighten it". More recently I had an opportunity to meet the new owner, she had listed something free on Craigslist and it was a really weird coincidence that it turned out to be the same house. I told her the story and she was really surprised that it was ever lifted. I found the original sales transaction so I think Ill knock on her door one day and hand it to her just to see the look on her face. I think it was about 3000 then and now it's worth over a million. funny how things go sometimes.

You can jack on corners and support points. just go slowly and steer it towards being more level. Giving it a crank every once in a while ( like 1/4" per week or so) Time between to normalize the stresses is supposed to help. Of course there are limits but if you go slowly and watch the effect throughout the house it's probably good advice. at least you won't do more damage than you expect. I think you are smart to sort that out and then you can fix any cracks during your renos.

you might be able to do some calculations to figure out where to lift, either simple math or trigonometry if you are comfortable with that. you can probably calculate where it is and then how much each point needs to move and maybe you could also allow some tolerance to prevent overdoing it and cracking things up more than necessary.


also get a piece of clear 1/4" hose and fill it with water. get the bubbles out. You can put food coloring in the water. now you can run the two ends of the hose to where you want and observe the water level in the hose. both ends will always be the same as long as it's free of bubbles in the hose and that's handy to give a reference between any two points. one might be inside and one might be outside the house or they may be at opposite ends of your crawlspace. I'd start making some reference points and choose a benchmark before you start so you know where you have lifted and by how much.

the benchmark is just a point that you choose that isn't going to change in height, maybe the top of a big rock or you can hammer a pin in the ground out in the yard to use as a reference point that' wont' be shifted during your house movements. you can pick your benchmark , then write down the difference between your benchmark and various points around the foundation. Then you can always use your water level to compare those two points and it will show how far you have moved.

in theory even if the house is a foot higher at one end than the other , as long as the weight is supported equally you should be able to shift the house to level without stressing the framing. If it's 2 inches higher in the middle and you wan to fix that , it would require the lumber and plaster to bend, and that's where you'll see damage. Over time the wood and plaster will move, it will bend, but of course there are limits and what makes sense in theory isn't always what happens in real life. I can't really help with the differences between your timber frame house and a stick framed one. same principles apply. The timber framing might help with the rigidity of the support structure. I bet the large beams wont' want to bend so maybe it's more rigid.

when a carpenter installs the floor joist, he will normally eyeball each joist and trend towards putting the crown up. My house is very square and level but My attic floor has a very slight curve and I think that may be original. I wouldn't try to fix that. in my case the attic might be 3/4" higher in the middle than the edges. I remember trimming the baseboards to fit but that was the only time I noticed it. if your house moved a little in 150 years it's probably pretty stable where it is and if you aren't straightening then it isn't really going to change the fit of things too much, If everything is out of square to each other I think that's harder to fix. It might be a situation where youre better to make some trade-offs than aim for "perfect"

maybe you could hire someone to lift it or straighten it but also you could do some checking to see how much, and then you could give the contractor specifics about what points you want o see shifted and how much. then they will use that and also their expertise to advise but at least youve given them a starting point and maybe decided on your tolerances , rather than handing it over and saying make it straight and level.

you could also do some checks , like for example drop a plumb bob near each corner and look to see if the house is leaning with reference to the walls and not the floors. you'd expect if the floor was out of level that the wall would be affected to a proportional ammount. maybe that would help show you if it was built perfectly level and sank, or maybe it wasn't built perfecty level to begin with or if additions have been done they might have not even thought about that and built things as plumb as they could.

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