Nicholas: I learned from the permit guys that it is in our best interest to get the sellers to remedy than ask for a reduction. That keeps the burden off of us if something else comes up during the process.
lovesickest: Although not on the online listing, on the sheet we got from the realtor there is a clear disclosure which we didn't notice until after the trouble arose. Previous handouts we've gotten from our agent prior had no additional info I couldn't see online, so I hadn't bothered looking at it. One place we viewed did have disclosures about former termite damage that the Selling Agent presented during our viewing along with other paperwork about the home. So that was my fault for missing it.
~~~In general, here's the latest.
The sellers have realized we're not trying to change our bid to a lowball, we just don't want a headache we have to sue them over later which would cost much more than them fixing things on their dime. So now they're being much more helpful.
I'm starting to understand due to not enough room on the tax card for fully accurate notations, and how some permits get filed...there may be some truth to what they claim. I also realized that we have only looked at younger older homes, where there was less time for former owners to do their own updates through the years. Out of those, 42 was most intact from the original, the '35 bungalow a close second. The others either had all new windows, complete lack of drywall and more--even the '60 ranch.
It wasn't until the other day that I realized where the original 1850 kitchen likely used to be when comparing it to two 1900's homes two doors down either way. One has the original footprint, one has the same but built a second story over the L jut out where the 2nd chimney is, which gives validity that it is the original kitchen location. Given the current cabinet style at Pleasant, they moved the kitchen to what may have been the old back porch, closer in direct line to the dining room when they built the addition. It could have been moved earlier, and they just had new at the time cabinets installed then as well.
We also ran into a neighbor next door who happily admitted he'd been watching some of their work since his windows face the house so he can see right in--good to know our bedroom needs a total view obscuring window treatment!
He doesn't seem creepy, just honest.
We have scheduled our home inspection for Thursday. We have invited the selling agent/part owner to the home inspection on Thursday. I haven't heard back yet if they will do so. Either way, I'm going to ask for a list of what they claim they did (or better yet, the work orders minus the financials, I don't expect them to show me that much.)
The other potential good news is I realized some of the listing photos show painted paneling. The same paneling that was added to the walls (minus paint) when the mid century addition was built. I assumed when we viewed that all paneling inside the original structure was over drywall. However, there is a chance that during the addition construction--when we know something with the kitchen was done--they may have also added the 1/2 bath upstairs, and done upgraded electrical and plumbing for that time. The tax card isn't specific about what covering types are where, just that they are there.
The obvious work we saw in the basement (plumbing especially) is what the sellers are saying they did. The one wiring bit I thought was a replacement may have been a PO fix near a basement window, given some older reinforcement I noted--to be clear, wiring is well above said window.
The roof, I'm still not sure. When we asked the neighbor, he looked over to the house and pondered if it was three tab, but wasn't certain from that distance. He couldn't recall them doing any roofing work, so that was some small relief. I did notice that the tax card notes "ROOF 25Y", but not date as to when that started. Even if it was installed in '97, that means we still have six years or so on it in the best of all worlds.
As to the newer toilet, bath, et al, there is a note on the tax card about the fireplace in '80, with assessment value to such. Some of the permits have other less major work tied in, so with the new roof may have come new baths. There again, is a chance that those newer fixtures are not as new as suspected. If the current owners truly changed just the plumbing related to the 1st floor, as long as those actual pipes are permit issues, there might not be anything/much that needs to be undone in the "behind a wall/floor" sense since it's visible from the basement for the most part.
I'm going to head back over to the permit office this morning to take a very close look at the permits prior. I didn't photocopy anything then because I was still reeling that the current owners hadn't pulled any permits, given the totally obvious plumbing in the basement. They charge $ .50 per copy there. That made me feel old. I remember when libraries charged a nickel.
Since we are keeping everyone involved in the loop, everyone is now being pretty cordial and willing to help us work this out. This is GREAT news compared to the pit of despair I was living in last week when my worst fears seemed to be true.
All of the above may be logical resolutions to what I thought were the biggest violations save the 1st floor bath plumbing. However, if it turns out that this is just one hot mess as I'd feared, and they refuse to remedy, we will walk.
Spouse and I decided we like this place enough (especially at this price) to swallow the home inspection fee if we have to walk away. (I have been told we can pursue getting it back, but the cost to do so could be much more than what we'd likely get back.)
Given how folks seem willing to be reasonable now, I'm hoping things move forward. Thursday can't come soon enough!