Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

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Lily left the valley
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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Lily left the valley »

Texas_Ranger wrote:As far as I can tell all heating systems without actual combustion in each room "dry out" the air or - more accurately - don't humidify it. If you've got fireplaces, stoves or gas fires in the room, the combustion creates water vapour and some of that will inevitably end up in the room rather than going up the flue, humidifying the room air. If you've got a boiler or furnace in the cellar, especially a modern sealed direct-vent one you won't see any of that in your living quarters and get fairly dry winter air. Cold air can hold much less moisture than hot in absolute figures, so while relative humidity outside might be high in winter, once you heat the air inside your house, relative humidity will drop drastically (while absolut humidity remains more or less the same). Crazy physics!

Unless your radiators were actually leaking steam I can't see how they'd affect humidity at all. I've never seen a working steam system in my life though and all I know about them is from forums and from old stories. I think my mom once worked in an old school building in Germany (where some rooms had been converted to offices while the rest was still a school) with steam heat and she complained bitterly about how hard to regulate those radiators were, usually just blazing hot. The only other thing about steam systems I remember is that only one pipe is connected to each radiator - steam rises to the rads from gravity, condenses inside the rad and then drips back down to the boiler in the same pipe.
I have lived in some homes/apartments with older leaky systems, so that makes sense regarding the humidity changes. There are some neat water holders that use the heat of the rads to evaporate the water into the air to help add humidity in winter. I'm hoping to eventually start gathering house plants again, which will also help with humidity a bit.

Forced air systems aren't much fun for me, as I have dust allergies, so the blowers, no matter how clean I'd try to keep the house plus filters, make them my least favorite system. I prefer rads over baseboard because older baseboard systems (electric or water--never had the oil type) prevent certain furniture arrangements, especially allowing bookcases to actually be near to flush on a wall. :D

I can't recall the exact time period when rads were oversized on purpose due to less than stellar insulation in buildings, but that's one reason you run into that blazing hot problem. The system was sized for the air exchange through the building envelope at that time, but when insulation/sealant was added later, now it's too big. That's one reason some folks started opening windows in the dead of winter--too hot. (Another was with multi families, you'd get both one family wanted different temps than the other, so if was zoned, you'd have that imbalance as well.) With single zone, they'd sometimes have a hard time balancing the pressure loads (think that's the word) so that all apartments would be the same temp. There's a lot of factors, really, when you get to handling systems that large with steam to consider--some as minor as the relief valves getting clogged up and such. I have a lot of respect for folks who deal well with boiler systems that are single zone, yet supply to many individuals. It's amazing what some of them can figure out and remedy.

One reason so many relief valves were developed with sliding or turnable bits was so folks could try to accommodate for comfort that way. We have three variants with such here. You can get your system "retuned", I think it's called, for changes to insulation/sealant so that it's not too powerful. If I recall right, that usually means downsizing the rads and sometimes adjusting the capacity of the system itself since there is now less inner rad mass needing to be exchanged. (Yes, physics is awesome.)

One pipe steam is pretty ingenious, when you think about it. The thing to watch out for with older homes is sometimes settlement can cause the slope of the feed/return pipes to flatten, which can cause hiccups with the cycles, especially if you have an auto feed for makeup water. Same with the angle for the radiators themselves.
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Lily left the valley
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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Lily left the valley »

Inside has been getting small attentions when time allows. I haven't been doing as much indoors because the lawn is in full spring growing mode, so I want to stay on top of that as much as possible so I don't have any more overgrowth to deal with later than we already do from past deferred maintenance.

There's been slow but steady progress on the lawn and beds as the weather allows. The deferred maintenance and former trash loving tenants are the main reasons why it is taking so long. The results are well worth the work, though. The front yard is already looking better, and the rear is coming along in fits and spurts. The east side, closest to the driveway, has a very small strip of grass, and we've been debating if we'll just remove it and extend the bedding area down. Between the angle of the slope plus the already there bedding, it makes sense. Some of the dandelions are old and the roots are thick and long like carrots. I know they are edible, and can be used for wine, but for us they're fodder for the compost. There is a strip of vegetation on the north side along our neighbor's fence line, and I'm still not sure what to do there other than dig out the dandelions. It's mostly crab grass and other weeds. Somewhere I have some lily of the valley pips that I hope weathered their dormancy in a box well. I may try them if I can find them to see how they take, as most of that stretch is in shadow more than not.

Today I'm hoping to make a hot compost spot with black plastic so I can make sure we don't get any germination from weeds I'm pulling. It looks like the weather is going to be not too warm and gorgeous, so I think I'll be able to get a lot done out there today.

The west side of the house, I just need to do the regrade and encourage the moss and ferny bits. We don't have a lot of weeds there, so I'm leaving that for later. Now that the snow is gone, the water intrusion from that side has slowed, even though we've had a few good rains. So the priority doesn't seem as high.

One bit I'm still dithering over is the small bit of flat in the front between the slope and the street. We do not currently have sidewalk on our side of the street here, though the concrete walkway to the front door runs to the street edge. I do know that there is a setback for such on our property, but no idea yet where in the timeline we are for Gardner's sidewalk expansion plans. I know whatever gets planted there will be pummeled come winter because of the plows, so it might be best to just put some low ground cover like sage. Right now it's almost entirely crabgrass with bits of whatever weeds here and there.

We do have a large area with gravel in the back, and we're still not sure if it was a play area or above ground pool in the past or what. I could, for the short term, put down some of the landscape cloth I found and transfer the gravel there for now. My concern since working that bit yesterday is that after I pull all the weeds out, there really isn't much left aside from dirt, and although we could seed it for lawn, I'd rather do something else even if I'm not sure what yet. So maybe the cloth and gravel will be better for the short term until we can think of something better. I might be able to do a mini rain garden sort of thing there (it's not terribly wide), but again, with the plows it might kill everything there. They don't use salt here, but the sand has some sort of substance to help melt. I had thought of trying to do a partial sand hardscape, but I don't have much experience with such yet. Research would be needed so I don't worry I'd just be throwing money down a hole.

The holly bushes are something I've been on the fence about. They were planted too close to the porch to allow for their mature growth, so now they are already pressed against both the porch and the one side of the stairs that has a railing currently. I read that the best time to cut them back is December, but I need to do so sooner at least at the rail because it needs to be fixed--it's loose and someone could get hurt if they lean their weight on it and it jaunts out to the side since the hardware keeping it in place is not secure on top or bottom. You can see in the concrete that the stairs used to have pipe like the lower tier stairs, but I know we weren't thinking of bringing that back, and instead doing rails on both sides that would meet code and be appropriate to the bungalow style. I've been sketching out some ideas for that, and hope this summer we'll be able to put more permanent stair rails in to fix that issue.

The north side concrete slabs and asphalt overage going to the house need remedies as well, since they all slope to the foundation. The slab that used to be a stair base at one point is the one I dread. It's not small, and if we can do it, I'd like to fix it without breaking it up. We may likely need a pro for such.
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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by awomanwithahammer »

Lily left the valley wrote:The holly bushes are something I've been on the fence about. They were planted too close to the porch to allow for their mature growth, so now they are already pressed against both the porch and the one side of the stairs that has a railing currently. I read that the best time to cut them back is December, but I need to do so sooner at least at the rail because it needs to be fixed--it's loose and someone could get hurt if they lean their weight on it and it jaunts out to the side since the hardware keeping it in place is not secure on top or bottom.


I wouldn't worry too much about cutting back the hollies at the wrong time. I don't think there is a wrong time. I've cut 'em back, and cut 'em back and cut 'em back, with no diminution in the growth. I personally hate hollies but you have to dig them out. Last summer, my son pulled two or three very mature holly bushes--trees, really--out of the ground using a come-along, but he's kind of crazy that way anyway, and I wouldn't try it.

Bonnie
Bonnie

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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Lily left the valley »

awomanwithahammer wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about cutting back the hollies at the wrong time. I don't think there is a wrong time. I've cut 'em back, and cut 'em back and cut 'em back, with no diminution in the growth. I personally hate hollies but you have to dig them out. Last summer, my son pulled two or three very mature holly bushes--trees, really--out of the ground using a come-along, but he's kind of crazy that way anyway, and I wouldn't try it.

Bonnie
Thanks, Bonnie. I do like hollies, so that is part of why I was hesitant because I didn't want them to die off. I'll definitely give that a go later this week.
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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Texas_Ranger »

I have lived in some homes/apartments with older leaky systems, so that makes sense regarding the humidity changes. There are some neat water holders that use the heat of the rads to evaporate the water into the air to help add humidity in winter. I'm hoping to eventually start gathering house plants again, which will also help with humidity a bit.


We had those when I was a kid but apparently they're little more than placebos, at least with hot water radiators. Maybe they do more with steam, I'm not sure what kind of surface temperature steam rads can reach.

I'm not sure how much the building where my mom worked had been upgraded at that time but I do think no one ever bothered to adjust the heating system and there might not even have been a thermostat so if there were temperature swings the building would either overheat on warmer days or be freezing on colder days. I only went there once in the late 90s when the office was about to move out and she decided to pay some former colleagues a last visit there. A huge chunk of brick or maybe stone, built probably around the turn of the century and remuddled a few times over its life (I seem to remember PVC windows and most definitely grey vinyl tile almost everywhere).

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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Lily left the valley »

Texas_Ranger wrote:We had those when I was a kid but apparently they're little more than placebos, at least with hot water radiators. Maybe they do more with steam, I'm not sure what kind of surface temperature steam rads can reach.
I found a few models online, and the other day when I had to hit the plumbing store for the "oops", I stopped by our local pottery shop and inquired if they had them. They didn't, but I chatted with the main potter a bit, and he said he'd be interested in giving them a shot. So I have to get some measurements to him, and he said he'll likely take a stab at them after he finishes a big order he's wrapping up this month. I figure, at worst, I'll just have nifty hand made single flower holders I can put elsewhere if they turn out to do nothing worthwhile. :lol:

Edit: I tried to do a search for temperatures of the rads on water versus steam. So far I've only seen 212-229°F quoted for steam. The general consensus, though, is that hot water rads will likely be less because all the articles I'm seeing talking about temperature comparisons are talking about how hot the water has to get to do its job as designed, which means steam will win out.

Oh, and I did see this bit, which I knew, but forgot! Spanish Influenza and oversized rads: Go to the "Appearance is Everything" section
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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Texas_Ranger »

Most hot water systems around here run much cooler than that, something like up to 90 C (195 F) at the boiler, which results in a radiator surface temperature of something like 65 C (150 F). New radiator systems run as low as 55 C (105 F) at the boiler.

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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Lily left the valley »

Texas_Ranger wrote:Most hot water systems around here run much cooler than that, something like up to 90 C (195 F) at the boiler, which results in a radiator surface temperature of something like 65 C (150 F). New radiator systems run as low as 55 C (105 F) at the boiler.
I thought the temps listed seemed high only based on my touching them often to test them when we were having balance issues of the system initially. I'll have to do more research about the radiator humidifiers themselves. Apparently that is what they are called when I started finding them online.
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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Texas_Ranger »

Maybe that's the difference between the steam inside (which needs to be above the boiling point) and surface temperature.

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Re: Beebe -- our 1935 Bungalow on Baker Street.

Post by Lily left the valley »

I was pretty tired yesterday, and meant to go to bed early. Yet my brain was wired, so as usual I was still up well past midnight. In between trying to get a few things done in the office, I wound up browsing through an image folder I have for the front of the house.

As I've mentioned elsewhere here, I save a lot of images as we try to decide how to restore Beebe and make her feel like our home. So some of the images I have will have titles like "trellis bit on porch" "varied brick on chimney" or such to remind me why I've saved that particular image in case it isn't immediately obvious. (Sometimes the detail/s in question is/are obscured by other bits in the image.)

I found myself pulling out my sketchbook and starting to try to give a clear shape of the direction we have been talking about heading over the long haul. This is by no means something we plan to get done this year, and likely not even next year. It's a planned work in progress.

This is the first time I started rough sketching out all those bits in one form so I could see how they fit together. When Sean woke up for work, I showed it to him, and he said, "Yes. I like it." So It seems like I'm on the right track.

I know folks here like visuals and progress, so here's a step in our process of working towards what we'd eventually like to see when we approach our home.

Please keep in mind that this is a sketch, and I'm loose in hand with sketches to try to be quick. If I focus too much on "getting it right", I know from experience it will muck me down time wise because although I can draw pretty well when I make the effort, I am slow, so fussing over bits so they're more "right" is a downfall for me. As a result, not all the details are right or clear, it isn't to scale, and some proportions are definitely off. I also can't freehand clean straight lines to save my life :D
Image
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